[OSM-talk-be] TEC & Open Data: let's start !

Sat May 10 16:48:04 UTC 2014

On 2014-05-03 02:08, André Pirard wrote :
> Hi,
>
> No reply to my former e-mail. Are the bugs I discover forwarded to SPW?
No.  It looks like I am the only person interested in the correct
working of SPW data.
So, I wrote a personal complaint to the SPW, quoted below.
I make a long description of the problems, in short: it does not work.
The answer was, as short as possible: we know it doesn't work.
And, as I explained before, it may last 5 years.
And the TEC does not respond to error reports in their data.
There seems to be no line numbers in the data maps, neither Lignes nor
Poteaux.
Or does anyone know?
The OSM.org Transport Map layer does not show our bus lines.
They could have been a good substitute of Google Maps, wouldn't they?
Etc.

I made more manageable split copies of my OSM files here
<http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/TEC/>:
TEC_2014_04_Poteaux_?.osm.bz2 with ?=Province or Charleroi and luXemburg.

I made an Imagery picture for JOSM from here
<http://www.infotec.be/Medeplacer/Plandur%C3%A9seau.aspx>.  It was very
queer to try to calibrate it.
Either the map is Middle-Aged or they distorted it, especially the Meuse
course at Jemeppe.
But Julien will probably pop up and say that we cannot copy that data.
And so, where did the bus stop name with the same mistake as TEC's come
from?
And the line numbers and the rest?

Well, in answer to Julien's "let's start": I tried, but I'm afraid I
must stop.
Especially talking alone.
Maybe adding a few bus lines after Champs Libres' comparison data by the
end of May.

Cheers,

André.

> In addition to the 403 error reported below, I can see no data in the
> online browser
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer>.
> A wheel spins and turns to a red cross after a timeout.  No bus lines.
> Has anybody seen this this data yet?  I would like to know if the
> lines are numbered.
> Also,  http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?&search-text=TEC 
> returns no selection.
>
> As there will probably never be a (correctly working) TEC WMS server
> for JOSM...
> Not even a reply to my suggestions.
>
> I stored a *TEC_2014_04.gpx* @
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Papou/traces/1698225
> It can be used as a JOSM layer to display the TEC data at the same
> time as the OSM map. 
> Please rename it back to original filename;  Customize it e.g. yellow
> width 2.
>
> I have also made a *TEC_2014_04.osm*
> <http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/TEC/>, but to be used as an
> alternating display.
> That's because two osm layers are not designed to display at the same
> time by JOSM.
> But parts of it can be merged to any layer, e.g. to extract and
> distribute à la tasking manager.
> With JOSM, the tags of one TEC node can be very easily be copied and
> pasted to an OSM node.
> I made the following TEC => OSM tag conversion.
> POT_NOM_HA => name
> POT_ID => ref
> POT_ZONE_T => zone
> They are full of Osmose detectable or not mistakes with missing
> accents on uppercase letters.
>
> Any comment welcome.
> I'll make any improvement when the above bug will be fixed.
>>> Please, do not batch import ! 
>>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data to
>>> Bing! Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be more
>>> accurate than the original data :-)
> Import what?
> We are certainly not going to replace OSM ways with TEC ways!
> As to the bus stop nodes, at this place, they are on each side of the
> crossing
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1645537259#map=19/50.53943/5.65284>
> but the TEC map locates them on the other, same side. The stop
> location is rough and OSM puts it right in the shelter.
> As to the name, I wrote the TEC in June 2012 that it is not "Heid des
> Chênes" but "Haie des Chênes" and they still use the wrong name.
>> Généalogie du jeu de données
>> Sélection manuelle de tronçons TomTom.
>> 4 attributs sont disponibles pour l'instant : le code de la ligne, le
>> TEC propriétaire, le numéro de la ligne et le nom de la ligne.
> Should we suggest TEC to replace TomTom with OSM? ;-)
>
> SPW are epic!
>
> In sh'Allah ;-)
>
> Cheers,
>
> André.
>
>
>
> On 2014-04-27 01:00, André Pirard wrote :
>> On 2014-04-25 08:26, Julien Fastré wrote :
>>> Hi !
>>>
>>> Good news ! (Alleluia :-) )
>>>
>>> The TEC is publishing now data under Open Data Licence !
>>>
>>> On geoportail.wallonie.be, the data "Poteaux d'arrêts" (bus stop) and
>>> "ligne de bus" (bus lines) are now under CC BY-SA 4.0 international
>>> Licence :
>>>
>>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=47676af7-aab3-4d2e-9c9c-cd86e7ad7241
>>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=a5dc5bc7-3c37-4783-9c41-27ce2f83f3ae
>>>
>>> The schedules are also available here :
>>> http://opendata.awt.be/organization/groupe-tec (in a "Belgian format"...
>>> glups... I still haven't opened it yet).
>>>
>>> We are now allowed to import those data's in OSM.
>> Thanks Julien.
>> I'd gladly add this to my list of JOSM imagery sites but I see no WMS
>> configuration.
>> Is there a JOSM configuration?
>>
>> If I try to look at the Arcgis configuration you mention
>> http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer
>> http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer
>> I get a 403 error.
>> How can it be used?
>>> Please, do not batch import ! 
>>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data to
>>> Bing! Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be more
>>> accurate than the original data :-)
>> What about importing the data to a TEC.osm file, splitting this file
>> into pieces to distribute to volunteers that would use JOSM to
>> overlay them on top of OSM and other maps, rectify them subpiece by
>> subpieces and move them to the OSM layer to update? I see references
>> to OSM import tasking managers
>> <https://www.google.be/#&q=osm+import+tasking+manager>.
>>
>> I'm glad to learn that the Walloon othophotos can be used to check,
>> understand and put right other maps.
>> I never fully understood the only phrase of their terms
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/mentions-legales.html> that seems to
>> apply to us.
>> What does "ligne graphique" mean?
>> Can a SPW map be used to rectify another SPW map? ;-)
>>
>> Beware of Bing! !!!  It has an offset error at high zoom in many
>> places responsible for many OSM imprecisions.
>> The recently mentioned Mapbox seems to have the same images as Bing!
>> but with a different offset.
>> I didn't check (yet) if it exhibits the same errors as Bing!
>>> At Champs Libres, we are planning to provide an online "comparator"
>>> from TEC data to OSM data, using the old and new public transport
>>> schema. This will allow to see where are missing bus stops, where
>>> they are mispelled, etc. We will do it during May.
>> If the SPW keeps not making a WMS server, what about making a Champs
>> Libres proxy serving WMS?
>> This would allow doing what you say together with OSM updates while
>> staying in the same JOSM window.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> André.
>>
>>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	RE: accès WalonPortal aux données du TEC
> Date: 	Fri, 9 May 2014 11:32:04 +0000
> From: 	helpdesk.carto <helpdesk.carto at spw.wallonie.be>
> To: 	André Pirard <A.Pirard at ulg.ac.be>
>
>
>
> Bonjour,
>
>  
>
> Le problème est connu.
>
> La SRWT n’a pas encore totalement ouvert son infrastructure IT. Je les
> relance.
>
>  
>
> Bien à vous
>
>  
>
> Je reste à votre disposition.
>
>  
>
> Bien à vous.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> image001
>
> 	
>
> *HelpDesk Carto*
>
> Département de la Géomatique*- *http://geoportail.wallonie.be
>
> 081/71.59.08
>
> (SPA)
>
>  
>
> / /
>
> /Vous souhaitez être informé des dernières actualités, abonnez-vous à
> la //newsletter
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/home/ressources/newsletter.html>//et/ou
> aux différents flux //feed// du //Géoportail de la Wallonie
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/>//. //Si vous avez des questions,
> n’hésitez pas à consulter la //FAQ
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/render/live/fr/sites/geoportail/home/ressources/faq.html>////du
> Géoportail de la Wallonie.///
>
>  
>
> /"Ce message n'engage aucunement le SPW et reste informel. Tout
> courrier officiel doit toujours actuellement être confirmé par lettre
> et revêtu de la signature d'un agent dûment mandaté"///
>
>  
>
> *De :*André Pirard [mailto:A.Pirard at ulg.ac.be]
> *Envoyé :* mercredi 7 mai 2014 19:03
> *À :* helpdesk.carto
> *Objet :* accès WalonPortal aux données du TEC
>
>  
>
> Bonjour,
>
> Sur votre page  Géoportail de la Wallonie
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home.html>  je trouve
>
> Mobilité <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home.html>
>
> 	
>
> mobilite_03.png
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30>
>
> 	
>
> Routes
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3010>
>
> A pied & à vélo
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3020>
>
> Voies navigables
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3030>
>
> Transports en commun
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3040>
>
> Autres mobilités
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3099>
>
>
>
> je clique sur  Transports en commun
> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3040> 
> et je trouve une liste vide ainsi que le message
> Votre recherche n'a donné aucun résultat. Merci d'effectuer une
> nouvelle recherche en précisant vos critères.
> Je fais la recherche 
> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?&search-text=TEC  sans
> résultat.
> Je m'aperçois ensuite que le Géocatalogue est complètement vide.
>
> Je trouve alors en dehors de votre site les liens que je cherche:
>
> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=47676af7-aab3-4d2e-9c9c-cd86e7ad7241
> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=a5dc5bc7-3c37-4783-9c41-27ce2f83f3ae
>
> Mais quand je veux ouvrir
>
>
> - Service(s) de visualisation
>
> (http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer)
>
> - Service(s) de visualisation
>
> (http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer)
>
>
> j'obtiens une erreur 403
>
> et quand je veux ouvrir les cartes,
>
>
> - Application WalOnMap - Toute la Wallonie à la carte
>
> (http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer)
>
>
> - Application WalOnMap - Toute la Wallonie à la carte
>
> (http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer)
>
>
>
> Une roue tourne et se transforme en croix rouge et il n'y a pas de
> carte du tout.
>
> Merci de corriger ces problèmes pour donner accès à ces données.
>
> Merci d'avance,
> Bien à vous,
>
> André Pirard.
>
>
> Toute utilisation non sollicitée de mes données personnelles
> ne peut se faire qu'après mon autorisation explicite par écrit.
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/attachments/20140510/7bdec8e7/attachment.htm>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/jpeg
Size: 3611 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/attachments/20140510/7bdec8e7/attachment.jpe>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: image/png
Size: 656 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-be/attachments/20140510/7bdec8e7/attachment.png>