[OSM-talk-be] TEC & Open Data: let's start !
Julien Fastré
julien at fastre.info
Tue May 13 14:57:14 UTC 2014
Hi,
I am really concerned with having the SPW service working. Simply, I am
not interesting in repeating or hearing 10 times or more that things
does not work as they should.
I am in contact with people working at SPW, about OSM topics or other
ones. Some people, there, do their best with the time, money, structure
and hierarchy they have. Really, some people there do an impressive
work. The new "plan stratégique de la géomatique wallonne" is one of the
results of their work, with our help / advice and, so light it might
appears, I celebrate that.
We do agree with Champs Libres to install a WMS service with TEC
information (bus lines & stops). I had a problem to do that: we do have
reached our quota of IPv4 addresses on our servers and we would do it
with IPv6-only (tunnels IPv4->Ipv6 with sixxs or something else should
work and assure the connectivity).
But, technically, our hosting provider is a bit boring and will only see
flat network, we have to configure our servers on a different way... We
are working on it.
Julien
Le 10/05/14 19:08, Jo a écrit :
> I'm afraid we'll have to be patient. Things are moving in the right
> direction. So that's a plus. They're moving slowly, which may be seen
> a as a minus, but we have time. If you'd like to bus stops, there are
> still around 4000 in Flanders which need to be added.
>
> It involves looking up the zone information and checking the position
> on AGIV imagery.
>
> You can find the latest version of the converted data here:
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/jv675c51de33egi/DL.osm.zip
>
> To select stops for a given line, you can use the following regular
> expression search in JOSM:
>
> route_ref="(^|.+;)26(;.+|$)" inview odbl=new
>
> I tagged all the stops which are not in OSM yet with odbl=new. This
> has nothing to do with odbl, but rather uses the side effect of JOSM
> stripping that tag upon upload.
>
> another way to search is
>
> route_ref: inview odbl=new
>
>
> but the former version has the advantage it's easier to look up the
> zones at
>
> www.delijn.be/aanpassingen <http://www.delijn.be/aanpassingen>
>
> for that specific line. (I asked De Lijn explicitely and we have
> permission to use those PDFs, it won't get us in trouble). Oddly it's
> not possible to give us a file with the zone information for each stop
> directly. It's not readily available, although I can't imagine they
> don't have it.
>
> As far as the OSM PT rendering goes, I added a few bus lines in
> Walloon Brabant (connections out of Leuven and Brussels) and they do
> show up. Unfortunately all bus lines are in red, so it's not very
> useful to differentiate between the lines visually.
>
> Polyglot
>
>
> 2014-05-10 18:48 GMT+02:00 André Pirard <A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com
> <mailto:A.Pirard.Papou at gmail.com>>:
>
> On 2014-05-03 02:08, André Pirard wrote :
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> No reply to my former e-mail. Are the bugs I discover forwarded
>> to SPW?
> No. It looks like I am the only person interested in the correct
> working of SPW data.
> So, I wrote a personal complaint to the SPW, quoted below.
> I make a long description of the problems, in short: it does not work.
> The answer was, as short as possible: we know it doesn't work.
> And, as I explained before, it may last 5 years.
> And the TEC does not respond to error reports in their data.
> There seems to be no line numbers in the data maps, neither Lignes
> nor Poteaux.
> Or does anyone know?
> The OSM.org Transport Map layer does not show our bus lines.
> They could have been a good substitute of Google Maps, wouldn't they?
> Etc.
>
> I made more manageable split copies of my OSM files here
> <http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/TEC/>:
> TEC_2014_04_Poteaux_?.osm.bz2 with ?=Province or Charleroi and
> luXemburg.
>
> I made an Imagery picture for JOSM from here
> <http://www.infotec.be/Medeplacer/Plandur%C3%A9seau.aspx>. It was
> very queer to try to calibrate it.
> Either the map is Middle-Aged or they distorted it, especially the
> Meuse course at Jemeppe.
> But Julien will probably pop up and say that we cannot copy that data.
> And so, where did the bus stop name with the same mistake as TEC's
> come from?
> And the line numbers and the rest?
>
> Well, in answer to Julien's "let's start": I tried, but I'm afraid
> I must stop.
> Especially talking alone.
> Maybe adding a few bus lines after Champs Libres' comparison data
> by the end of May.
>
> Cheers,
>
> André.
>
>
>> In addition to the 403 error reported below, I can see no data in
>> the online browser
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer>.
>> A wheel spins and turns to a red cross after a timeout. No bus
>> lines.
>> Has anybody seen this this data yet? I would like to know if the
>> lines are numbered.
>> Also,
>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?&search-text=TEC
>> returns no selection.
>>
>> As there will probably never be a (correctly working) TEC WMS
>> server for JOSM...
>> Not even a reply to my suggestions.
>>
>> I stored a *TEC_2014_04.gpx* @
>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Papou/traces/1698225
>> It can be used as a JOSM layer to display the TEC data at the
>> same time as the OSM map.
>> Please rename it back to original filename; Customize it e.g.
>> yellow width 2.
>>
>> I have also made a *TEC_2014_04.osm*
>> <http://www.papou.byethost9.com/maps/TEC/>, but to be used as an
>> alternating display.
>> That's because two osm layers are not designed to display at the
>> same time by JOSM.
>> But parts of it can be merged to any layer, e.g. to extract and
>> distribute à la tasking manager.
>> With JOSM, the tags of one TEC node can be very easily be copied
>> and pasted to an OSM node.
>> I made the following TEC => OSM tag conversion.
>> POT_NOM_HA => name
>> POT_ID => ref
>> POT_ZONE_T => zone
>> They are full of Osmose detectable or not mistakes with missing
>> accents on uppercase letters.
>>
>> Any comment welcome.
>> I'll make any improvement when the above bug will be fixed.
>>>> Please, do not batch import !
>>>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data
>>>> to Bing! Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be
>>>> more accurate than the original data :-)
>> Import what?
>> We are certainly not going to replace OSM ways with TEC ways!
>> As to the bus stop nodes, at this place, they are on each side of
>> the crossing
>> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/1645537259#map=19/50.53943/5.65284>
>> but the TEC map locates them on the other, same side. The stop
>> location is rough and OSM puts it right in the shelter.
>> As to the name, I wrote the TEC in June 2012 that it is not "Heid
>> des Chênes" but "Haie des Chênes" and they still use the wrong name.
>>> Généalogie du jeu de données
>>> Sélection manuelle de tronçons TomTom.
>>> 4 attributs sont disponibles pour l'instant : le code de la
>>> ligne, le TEC propriétaire, le numéro de la ligne et le nom de
>>> la ligne.
>> Should we suggest TEC to replace TomTom with OSM? ;-)
>>
>> SPW are epic!
>>
>> In sh'Allah ;-)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> André.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2014-04-27 01:00, André Pirard wrote :
>>> On 2014-04-25 08:26, Julien Fastré wrote :
>>>> Hi !
>>>>
>>>> Good news ! (Alleluia :-) )
>>>>
>>>> The TEC is publishing now data under Open Data Licence !
>>>>
>>>> On geoportail.wallonie.be <http://geoportail.wallonie.be>, the data "Poteaux d'arrêts" (bus stop) and
>>>> "ligne de bus" (bus lines) are now under CC BY-SA 4.0 international
>>>> Licence :
>>>>
>>>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=47676af7-aab3-4d2e-9c9c-cd86e7ad7241
>>>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=a5dc5bc7-3c37-4783-9c41-27ce2f83f3ae
>>>>
>>>> The schedules are also available here :
>>>> http://opendata.awt.be/organization/groupe-tec (in a "Belgian format"...
>>>> glups... I still haven't opened it yet).
>>>>
>>>> We are now allowed to import those data's in OSM.
>>> Thanks Julien.
>>> I'd gladly add this to my list of JOSM imagery sites but I see
>>> no WMS configuration.
>>> Is there a JOSM configuration?
>>>
>>> If I try to look at the Arcgis configuration you mention
>>> http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer
>>> http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer
>>> I get a 403 error.
>>> How can it be used?
>>>> Please, do not batch import !
>>>> I saw in the previous version a lot of mistakes, comparing data
>>>> to Bing! Imagery and also to Walloon's orthophotos. We may be
>>>> more accurate than the original data :-)
>>> What about importing the data to a TEC.osm file, splitting this
>>> file into pieces to distribute to volunteers that would use JOSM
>>> to overlay them on top of OSM and other maps, rectify them
>>> subpiece by subpieces and move them to the OSM layer to update?
>>> I see references to OSM import tasking managers
>>> <https://www.google.be/#&q=osm+import+tasking+manager>.
>>>
>>> I'm glad to learn that the Walloon othophotos can be used to
>>> check, understand and put right other maps.
>>> I never fully understood the only phrase of their terms
>>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/mentions-legales.html> that seems
>>> to apply to us.
>>> What does "ligne graphique" mean?
>>> Can a SPW map be used to rectify another SPW map? ;-)
>>>
>>> Beware of Bing! !!! It has an offset error at high zoom in many
>>> places responsible for many OSM imprecisions.
>>> The recently mentioned Mapbox seems to have the same images as
>>> Bing! but with a different offset.
>>> I didn't check (yet) if it exhibits the same errors as Bing!
>>>> At Champs Libres, we are planning to provide an online
>>>> "comparator" from TEC data to OSM data, using the old and new
>>>> public transport schema. This will allow to see where are
>>>> missing bus stops, where they are mispelled, etc. We will do it
>>>> during May.
>>> If the SPW keeps not making a WMS server, what about making a
>>> Champs Libres proxy serving WMS?
>>> This would allow doing what you say together with OSM updates
>>> while staying in the same JOSM window.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> André.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: RE: accès WalonPortal aux données du TEC
>> Date: Fri, 9 May 2014 11:32:04 +0000
>> From: helpdesk.carto <helpdesk.carto at spw.wallonie.be>
>> <mailto:helpdesk.carto at spw.wallonie.be>
>> To: André Pirard <A.Pirard at ulg.ac.be> <mailto:A.Pirard at ulg.ac.be>
>>
>>
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>>
>>
>> Le problème est connu.
>>
>> La SRWT n'a pas encore totalement ouvert son infrastructure IT.
>> Je les relance.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bien à vous
>>
>>
>>
>> Je reste à votre disposition.
>>
>>
>>
>> Bien à vous.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> image001
>>
>>
>>
>> *HelpDesk Carto*
>>
>> Département de la Géomatique*- *http://geoportail.wallonie.be
>>
>> 081/71.59.08
>>
>> (SPA)
>>
>>
>>
>> / /
>>
>> /Vous souhaitez être informé des dernières actualités,
>> abonnez-vous à la //newsletter
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/home/ressources/newsletter.html>//et/ou
>> aux différents flux //feed// du //Géoportail de la Wallonie
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/>//. //Si vous avez des questions,
>> n'hésitez pas à consulter la //FAQ
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/cms/render/live/fr/sites/geoportail/home/ressources/faq.html>////du
>> Géoportail de la Wallonie.///
>>
>>
>>
>> /"Ce message n'engage aucunement le SPW et reste informel. Tout
>> courrier officiel doit toujours actuellement être confirmé par
>> lettre et revêtu de la signature d'un agent dûment mandaté"///
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :*André Pirard [mailto:A.Pirard at ulg.ac.be]
>> *Envoyé :* mercredi 7 mai 2014 19:03
>> *À :* helpdesk.carto
>> *Objet :* accès WalonPortal aux données du TEC
>>
>>
>>
>> Bonjour,
>>
>> Sur votre page Géoportail de la Wallonie
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home.html> je trouve
>>
>> Mobilité <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home.html>
>>
>>
>>
>> mobilite_03.png
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30>
>>
>>
>>
>> Routes
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3010>
>>
>> A pied & à vélo
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3020>
>>
>> Voies navigables
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3030>
>>
>> Transports en commun
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3040>
>>
>> Autres mobilités
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3099>
>>
>>
>>
>> je clique sur Transports en commun
>> <http://geoportail.wallonie.be/en/home/geocatalogue.html?search-theme=theme_30&search-subtheme=soustheme_3040>
>> et je trouve une liste vide ainsi que le message
>> Votre recherche n'a donné aucun résultat. Merci d'effectuer une
>> nouvelle recherche en précisant vos critères.
>> Je fais la recherche
>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?&search-text=TEC sans
>> résultat.
>> Je m'aperçois ensuite que le Géocatalogue est complètement vide.
>>
>> Je trouve alors en dehors de votre site les liens que je cherche:
>>
>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=47676af7-aab3-4d2e-9c9c-cd86e7ad7241
>> http://geoportail.wallonie.be/geocatalogue?mdUUID=a5dc5bc7-3c37-4783-9c41-27ce2f83f3ae
>>
>> Mais quand je veux ouvrir
>>
>>
>> - Service(s) de visualisation
>>
>> (http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer)
>>
>> - Service(s) de visualisation
>>
>> (http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer)
>>
>>
>> j'obtiens une erreur 403
>>
>> et quand je veux ouvrir les cartes,
>>
>>
>> - Application WalOnMap - Toute la Wallonie à la carte
>>
>> (http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Lignes/MapServer)
>>
>>
>> - Application WalOnMap - Toute la Wallonie à la carte
>>
>> (http://geoportail.wallonie.be/walonmap/#ADU=http://geodata.tec-wl.be/arcgis/rest/services/Poteaux/MapServer)
>>
>>
>>
>> Une roue tourne et se transforme en croix rouge et il n'y a pas
>> de carte du tout.
>>
>> Merci de corriger ces problèmes pour donner accès à ces données.
>>
>> Merci d'avance,
>> Bien à vous,
>>
>> André Pirard.
>>
>>
>> Toute utilisation non sollicitée de mes données personnelles
>> ne peut se faire qu'après mon autorisation explicite par écrit.
>>
>
>
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