[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: Toll for trucks +3,5ton

Thu Mar 17 21:33:47 UTC 2016

On 17-03-16 20:19, Jasper Michels wrote:
> ok, i agree.
> 
> But as a side note. I predict the future.

we all do.  Allow me to elaborate extensively

> 
> 30 year later, the databases of the OSM-community will run empty. (If 
> you keep true to these rules)

Centralizing data (which is what you suggest) needs to be done with
relevant information only.

This is the era of distributed databases you can consult through API's.
 So it's a lot better to split in flavours of data and/or enrich them
with combinations.

I'm professionally involved with this subject BTW, I kind of know how
it's organised technically, with the OBU's ( On-Board Unit ) and the GPS
side of it.

It's really not simple to calculate this correctly, even with good
source data.  You don't notice it but GPS devices and derived data is
very complex and inaccurate. There is a combination of weight, euronorm,
type of road and area (country, municipality, contintent).

You might not realise it but there are several different devices for
Germany, Holland, ... all different rules.  We can't even get this
aligned in a thing called Europe to use 1 single device and distributed
databases.  Because we don't like sharing.

Truckers driving around with a hardware menu of 5 devices, they need to
switch on/off at the border's (if they are indicated at all)

Nobody is going to use publicly OSM edited data to calculate invoices to
all those companies in Europe.  So why bother when you can consult it
elsewhere ?  What is the merit of it?  At it's best, it will be purely
indicative at best.

> No more speed limit panes, no more street or place names,...

A bit far fetched.  We humans think in objects and use names, A chair, a
relationship, our kids.  We are not a procedural race, we need identity.

> All running around with our virtual glasses, and our semi automated cars.

quite possibly, but every action gets reaction, nature will try to
balance. I'm not worried.  The question is if the planet isn't blacked
out by then.  Bye bye GPS satellites :)

> http://www.reuters.com/article/netherlands-tech-autos-idUSL5N0OX3S420140616

It doesn't even have to be so drastic, a GPS reflection is sometimes
enough to lower accuracy.  And then we have tunnels, parkings.. I could
go on trying to describe the issues I've encountered the challenges I've
come across the last 10 years, use your imagination.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/oct/21/tesla-autopilot-goes-wrong-videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrwxEX8qOxA

I just know how much can go wrong, we humans make mistakes, so really
leaning back in my seat on this one, from the start.  Ask Tesla how some
of their automated updates went...

Did you know they can raise the height (and they did by some centimetres
once) all the cars by remote update.  Sometimes they release new
features as well (pretty cool in fact)

And sometimes they break shit (badly)

OSM philosophy is exactly what we need to rise to the occasion.

Glenn

> 
> Case Closed.
> 
> 
> 2016-03-17 14:42 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas <glenn at byte-consult.be
> <mailto:glenn at byte-consult.be>>:
> 
>     Hi Jasper,
> 
>     The amount is dependant on the type of vehicle euronorm, so you cannot
>     even store this in OSM as it depends on external factors.
> 
>     It would be a bad idea, even if it wasn't as it is prone to change
>     overtime.
> 
>     Glenn
> 
> 
>     On 16-03-16 20:35, Jasper Michels wrote:
>     > Thank you for the answer Marc and Sander.
>     >
>     > Would have loved to specify the amount, but Sander has a point.
>     > We can't verify this by survey.
>     > Will use toll:hgv=yes
>     >
>     > 2016-03-16 20:50 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com <mailto:marc.gemis at gmail.com>
>     > <mailto:marc.gemis at gmail.com <mailto:marc.gemis at gmail.com>>>:
>     >
>     >     There is a toll-tag [1]. That page recommends toll=no, toll:hgv=yes
>     >     Is this sufficient ? I don't know whether you want to specify the
>     >     amount as well.
>     >
>     >
>     >     regards
>     >
>     >     m
>     >
>     >     [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:toll
>     >
>     >     On Wed, Mar 16, 2016 at 7:24 PM, Jasper Michels
>     >     <jaspermichels at gmail.com <mailto:jaspermichels at gmail.com>
>     <mailto:jaspermichels at gmail.com <mailto:jaspermichels at gmail.com>>>
>     wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >         Hi all,
>     >
>     >         Starting from 1/04/2016 trucks will have to pay toll on the
>     >         Belgian roads.
>     >         http://www.viapass.be/en/about-viapass/viapass-for-hgvs/
>     >
>     >         The amount of toll depends from these factors:
>     >         -Type of street
>     >         -Euro-class Engine
>     >         -Weight
>     >         -Kilometres travelled (GPS driven)
>     >
>     >         Is there a possibility to map this? And how?
>     >         How to make the difference of euro classes, and weight?
>     >
>     >         Could be very handy for apps like Osmand with their truck
>     >         navigation.
>     >         Doesn't seem a lot of work also.
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >
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