[OSM-talk-be] Missing windmills data ?
Matthieu Gaillet
matthieu at gaillet.be
Mon Jul 12 09:11:21 UTC 2021
Hi Seppe,
Thanks for reviewing my changes carefully !
> Good thing you’re cleaning up! The changeset is huge though, which makes it hard to review. It would have been easier if the work was split up into different changesets, e.g. one for each type of change: “moving manufacturer and model from name tag to manufacturer and manufacturer:type tags” for one changeset, “adding generator:output:electricity=yes” for a second changeset and so on. That would also make it easier to revert one of these big changes if something goes wrong or i fit is disputed.
You’re right. Actually I was surprised to discover so many discrepancies and I didn’t expect that there will be so much changes. I will do it differently next time.
> That brings me to the generator:output:electricity=small_installation key/value combination. This is not documented in the wiki (as far as i can see) and to me, it doesn’t really make sense.
> I can understand that you want to identify smaller wind turbines, but I think the generator:output:electricity should not be used for this. Especially where you have changed an existing value in Watts (e.g. “generator:output:electricity=1800 W” into “generator:output:electricity=small_installation”), I think this is wrong. It takes away detailed information (the actual output in W). I can understand the motivation for this (filtering out small installations in queries), but I think this is not the right way to do it.
I understand that. I was myself not so sure about this but that « small_installation » value is proposed by JOSM, that’s why I decided to follow that path. By looking at the wiki <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:generator:source=solar#Rooftop_Solar_Panels> I see that that this value is mostly used for individual rooftop solar installations, which is exactly the same idea for individual wind turbines ! Therefore I think the tagging is absolutely correct.
> Especially for the turbines that had a value in W, I would suggest to revert these edits.
I reviewed those 15 « small installations » Most were only specifying generator:output:electricity=yes or nothing at all. So I actually added details. There was two exceptions :
The one with 1800W was actually created by me 😊 and as I really feel it’s a kind of gadget more that anything else from the energy point of view I prefer leaving it like this.
I restored one that was originally mentioning 50 kW of power output since it is as rather large installation, larger that a household one. There are more and more individual wind turbines of that kind especially around farms.
> I’m sure we can find a consensus on how to tag/identify smaller wind turbines. We can then document this in the Wiki and after that, we can see where we should add to (or change) existing tagging.
I agree, there should be indeed a way to separate industrial vs private generators, they have really almost nothing in common except that they are producing energy with wind.
There is an interesting proposal here <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_generation_refinement#Dispersed_facilities> : grouping the industrial turbines into farms and power plants, summing their individual power outputs. Most of the industrial wind turbines are grouped on a small areas. That would exclude lone turbines but those are quite rare.
So the user would have to search for wind farms instead of turbines to get an idea of the installed power (which is IMHO more relevant than the number of individual generators).
What do you think ?
>
> Best regards,
>
> Seppe
>
> Van: Matthieu <matthieu at gaillet.be <mailto:matthieu at gaillet.be>>
> Verzonden: donderdag 8 juli 2021 19:18
> Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium <talk-be at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-be at openstreetmap.org>>
> Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] Missing windmills data ?
>
> Hi,
>
> I reviewed all the nodes having "generator:source"=“wind” in Wallonia using JOSM, mostly by mass editing using various filters to ensure correct tagging.
>
> I was surprised to see how many of them I had to edit (353 out of 499 nodes found). Most common errors were :
>
> Missing one of many of the mandatory tags, namely
> power <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power>=generator <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator>
> generator:source <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:generator:source>=wind
> +
> The latest being the most problematic.
> A lot had the manufacturer and model in the name field.
> By locating isolated wind turbines (most of them are arranged in farms), I was able to find a lot of private wind turbines, for them I set generator:output:electricity <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:generator:output:electricity>=small_installation to be able to isolate them in a dataset.
>
> I hope the result is good and that I didn’t break anything. I randomly reviewed some nodes and my edits made sense.
>
> The changeset is here if anybody wants to review : https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/107651694 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/107651694>
>
> Thanks
>
> Matthieu
>
>
>
> On 15 Jun 2021, at 19:31, Matthieu Gaillet <matthieu at gaillet.be <mailto:matthieu at gaillet.be>> wrote:
>
>
> Salut,
>
> J’ai récemment lu dans ce papier qu’aucune donnée précise n’était disponible sur le nombre d’éoliennes en Wallonie. https://plus.lesoir.be/378347/article/2021-06-15/eoliennes-les-communes-wallonnes-au-bord-de-la-crise-de-nerfs <https://plus.lesoir.be/378347/article/2021-06-15/eoliennes-les-communes-wallonnes-au-bord-de-la-crise-de-nerfs>
>
> Ne serait-ce pas l’occasion de mettre la communauté à l’œuvre ?
>
> Premièrement, remonter localisation des parcs éoliens
>
> Deuxièmement, faire un relevé sur place
>
> Troisièmement réunir des informations plus précises sur les hauteurs et les puissances.
>
> Les communes disposent généralement de ces informations, à priori on pourrait les obtenir sur simple demande. Parfois c’est même décrit sur un panneau informatif.
>
> En bonus il reste à relever les éoliennes privées, surtout celles autour des exploitations agricoles.
>
> Qu’en pensez-vous ? Comment démarrer ce genre de community-assisted survey ?
>
> L’état des lieux : https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/18oI <https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/18oI> - Je vois déjà que le parc sur Assesse est manquant.
>
> Matthieu
>
>
>
> Matthieu G. (en mode mobile)
>
>
> Matthieu G. (en mode mobile)
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