[Talk-br] Fwd: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency

[Fernando Trebien]

Caro prof. Hasenack,

Muito obrigado pelo e-mail anterior indicando que podemos usar os dados.
Recebi uma resposta da comunidade internacional e preciso corrigir um
detalhe do que eu disse a vocês. Antes, uma pergunta crucial: é suficiente
"citar" a fonte acrescentando a tag "source=Labgeo-UFRGS" a cada um dos
objetos importados no mapa? Essa informação só estaria disponível em modo
de edição.

Quanto à atribuição na página de copyright (
http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright), parece ser mais restrita às fontes
que disponibilizam seus dados comercialmente (sob copyright) e não para
contribuidores que produzem seus dados sem fins lucrativos, como seria o
caso do Labgeo. Para esse, o lugar adequado seria nesta página do wiki (à
qual muitos têm acesso de edição):
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors

Então, eu preciso perguntar a vocês novamente se citar o Labgeo nesta outra
página é atribuição suficiente para vocês. Eu solicitei que colocassem um
link pra essa página a partir da página de copyright, de modo a garantir
uma visibilidade similar a todos, mas pode demorar pra fazerem.

Eu estava um pouco desatualizado, a comunidade parece ter iniciado um
movimento no sentido de solicitar aos contribuidores se aceitam ou não os
"termos do contribuidor" (
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms). Acredito que
o objetivo seja se proteger de futuros problemas legais. Eles têm acumulado
a informação aqui: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Catalogue

Assim, não querendo abusar da boa vontade de vocês, gostaria de pedir (sem
urgência) um texto curto (nem precisa usar linguagem muito rebuscada),
apenas ressaltando os pontos 2, 3 e 4 dos termos do contribuidor, que são:
1. Que a OSMF tem o direito de usar como bem entender os dados contribuídos
pelo Labgeo nesse momento (o Diagnóstico Ambiental disponível no site) para
qualquer fim, inclusive fim comercial, por tempo indeterminado
2. Que a OSMF pode sublicenciar esses dados contribuídos sob a licença DbCL
1.0 (http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/dbcl/1-0/)
3. Que a licença da OSMF pode mudar futuramente para outra licença aberta
(como a Creative Commons) somente se houver voto majoritário por pelo menos
2/3 dos membros da OSMF
4. Que a OSMF concorda em fazer a devida atribuição ao Labgeo ou ao
detentor do copyright, e que atualmente o local para isso é:
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors

Acho que seria justo acrescentar ao item 4 a questão de fazer a atribuição
com a tag "source=Labgeo-UFRGS". Algumas observações sobre os itens acima:

Item 1: entendo que isso não se aplicaria a dados futuros do Labgeo (como
uma edição atualizada do Diagnóstico Ambiental), a menos que vocês digam
que é permitido também.

Item 2: a DbCL me parece apenas incluir a ODbL e acrescentar a isenção da
OSMF da responsabilidade sobre os dados. Ela também ressalta que os dados
da OSMF, se usados por um terceiro, podem ser "sublicenciados". Isso
significa que tudo aquilo que for copiado da OSMF tem que ser
disponibilizado sob a mesma licença, apenas dados novos poderiam ter outra
licença.

Item 3: da última vez que houve uma mudança de licença (da CC para a ODbL),
cada usuário pôde votar se aceitava ou não a nova licença. As reversões
foram feitas por usuário. Mas acho muito difícil que a licença mude,
acompanho as listas da OSMF e não vejo ninguém falando sobre esse assunto.

Por fim, sei que foi uma mensagem longa, então queria mais uma vez
agradecer toda a atenção que vocês têm oferecido à comunidade do OSM. Um
grande abraço,

Fernando

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Simon Poole <simon em poole.ch>
Date: Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 8:21 AM
Subject: Re: [OSM-legal-talk] New contributing agency
To: legal-talk em openstreetmap.org



(IMHO naturally) From a content pov, an agreement or a statement from a
contributing agency should be based roughly on the terms laid down in the
contributor terms (
http://www.osmfoundation.org/wiki/License/Contributor_Terms).   They should
mainly grant the OSMF the rights listed in (2) and it would be nice if they
would make a statement to the fact that they actually own the necessary
rights in the data to do so.

Simon

Am 20.11.2013 20:28, schrieb Fernando Trebien:

It's a very similar situation indeed, Jaakko. Here such forms would take
years to get processed sometimes, it all depends on the good will of who
receives the request. I've noticed that this "will" is more responsive when
the person knows how to answer, or at least knows who to delegate the
request to (specially if this person is not a very specialized busy top
manager), so simple and easy questions are more effective at getting a
clear answer faster.

 Wish you luck as well!

 Fernando

 On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 4:24 PM, Jaakko Helleranta.com <
jaakko em helleranta.com> wrote:

> Same situation in Nicaragua. Many here say: Oh, it's all public domain! ..
> where they merely mean, We have it and can give it to you. Or: It's online
> and no one will protest (immediately at least) if you put it in OSM.
>
>  The written permission (for which there are existing forms) is critical
> -- and I'm afraid that you'll likely not get that...
>
>  Wishing you all the best, of course.
>
>  Cheers,
> -Jaakko
>
>  --
> jaakko em helleranta.com * Skype: jhelleranta * Mobile: +505-8845-3391 (Nicaragua)
> * Voice(mail) / SMS / What's app: +1-202-730-9778 *
> http://about.me/jaakkoh
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 1:19 PM, Fernando Trebien <
> fernando.trebien em gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  Thank you, Simon. You are correct, the LABGEO cartographers I have
>> talked to don't seem to have access to any formal statement (contracts,
>> laws, etc.) that ensures the data is truly "public domain" as they say. It
>> is also possible that existing written statements would not clearly answer
>> essential questions concerning ODbL compatibility. Considering some other
>> problems (such as uninformed and uninterested Brazilian authorities, and
>> lack of court decisions that would help us interpret the law), I believe
>> that getting them to write down exactly what we need them to agree with
>> would be safer for us and also more productive for us and for them.
>>
>> Since these authorities often erroneously equate "public domain" with
>> "free" or "open" (not even knowing the differences between the two), I
>> believe the questions for them should be:
>> - how they expect their attribution to be visible to end users through
>> OSM; and
>> - whether the data can be used for commercial purposes.
>>
>>  I don't know if these questions are enough, so I would like to hear
>> your opinions and suggestions.
>>
>>  Finally, we have already studied the data and found the conversion
>> rather easy to do. Importing would probably require some coordinated
>> effort, but for now it is the legal aspect that completely prevents us from
>> beginning. Also, I think it would be fairer if the copyright page included
>> a linked to the wiki page you mentioned, so that all contributors enjoy
>> some similar level of visibility.
>>
>>  Regards,
>>
>>  Fernando
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:25 PM, Simon Poole <simon em poole.ch> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Hi Fernando
>>>
>>> I gather from your questions that they are currently not distributing
>>> the data under a (well-)known licence or on any other documented terms?
>>>
>>> In any case before spending to much effort on trying to nail down the
>>> legal side, you really need to clarify if this is suitable data for OSM and
>>> if yes, if there is a process that will result in something that is
>>> digestible by the Brazilian community. So I would strongly suggest at least
>>> starting with the steps outlined in
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines
>>>
>>> As to being mentioned on http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright , there
>>> is no written in stone policy who gets on that page, in the past it seems
>>> to have been used as an extra bargaining chip in negotiation. Being listed
>>> there does not in any way indicate that the contributions are or were more
>>> important than contributions from the individuals and organisations listed
>>> here http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors . Clearly there is
>>> a practical desire to keep the list on the copyright page as short as
>>> possible. Down the road we may have better mechanisms to build the
>>> attribution pages and then that may change. So for now it would depend on
>>> the outcome of any necessary negotiations.
>>>
>>> Simon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Am 14.11.2013 18:58, schrieb Fernando Trebien:
>>>
>>>   Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I've recently contacted an institute (LABGEO) within a public university
>>> here in Brazil (UFRGS) and they've shown interest in contributing to OSM
>>> their data, which includes roads, land contours, vegetation data, maybe
>>> even geological data (it is a pretty extensive database). They would also
>>> like to be listed as a contributor here in this page:
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright
>>>
>>>  Though there may be a few details left to check yet, they've stated so
>>> far that the dada is already regularly used for commercial purposes by many
>>> Brazilian companies at zero cost. So here's my question: what kind of
>>> statement do they have to provide so that they get listed in that page?
>>> What questions does the statement need to answer?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Fernando Trebien
>>> +55 (51) 9962-5409 <%2B55%20%2851%29%209962-5409>
>>>
>>> "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
>>> "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
>>>
>>>
>>>  _______________________________________________
>>> legal-talk mailing listlegal-talk em openstreetmap.orghttps://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> legal-talk mailing list
>>> legal-talk em openstreetmap.org
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Fernando Trebien
>> +55 (51) 9962-5409
>>
>> "The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
>> "The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> legal-talk mailing list
>> legal-talk em openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>


 --
Fernando Trebien
+55 (51) 9962-5409

"The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
"The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)


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-- 
Fernando Trebien
+55 (51) 9962-5409

"The speed of computer chips doubles every 18 months." (Moore's law)
"The speed of software halves every 18 months." (Gates' law)
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