[Talk-ca] FW: Canvec import in Montréal with ? names

Sat Dec 12 05:13:07 GMT 2009

Hi,

Thanks Frank. for making the geobase files available in NTS tile size pieces
for the Montreal area.

Fortunately, over here on the west coast we already made that conversion
where the the Geobase data was converted to OSM and the files simply made
available.  and 'made available' is the point which is up for discussion.
My method, which was to use a google Docs chart, is the only one which can
be currently implimented and used.  (meanwhile the web-version gets created,
and doesnt need to deal with roads)

Unfortunatly, i no  longer have access to that chart, but fortunatly Adam
Dunn is still working on BC and doing a great job making the .osm files
available as he also merges it.   For those areas that are to difficult to
run automatch, a note is written in the chart next to the nts tile number,
for just how much work has been done.

There are currently only a few people on this talk-ca list who are actually
capable of converting the geobase gml files to .osm using the geobase2osm
script.  (6 to be exact)

The people who are currently working on it, are converting the data &
uploading at the same time.

I have asked repetedly for those people who know how, to focus on just doing
the conversion wholesale, then making these .osm files available.  And done
so to the NTS grid (a super large file is fine).

This way, those who have that tallent can  make all of Canada converted, so
at least these .osm files are available.

For those province that do not have road names available.  It would be fine
to convert the province file and still make that .osm file available.   So
then at least the geometry is available.

This way, the people who do not have the skills to run geobase2osm can still
help, and manually merge in the road data as they are working on their own
areas.

...
The other option that can ALSO be done (and was recommened) is to create a
WMS layer which shows the whole grid where people can simply trace.  (thats
why making it available as a gpx file is a smart thing todo ALSO)

Fortunatly, Austin has already explained how, and show us (a littlt while
back) how to have the Natural Resources Canada map (that shows water areas
and points for aboriginal lands) and people can copy and trace those.   (I
use it for my own mapping as it helps)  while i wait for the web-interface
to be developed.

Fortunatly, also the canvec data conversion the python script (to handle
MOST features) accept Roads / rivers / water areas / railways does a good
job at conversion.

The next phase of our project is to (IMO)

1 - convert ALL of the geobase gml files to .osm files and make these .osm
files available (mediafire is a nice temporary home)

2 - once these geobase.osm files are available, make links on the various
locality wiki pages so then more people will see them

3  - keep the google docs chart upto date listing the progress with links to
where the data is found, and a note on what the status is.

4 - Announce to everyone that these files are available and free to copy-in

5 - Decide on hif you want to make 2 canvec scripts.
script1 - the script process all the features that are fine by the
community.
and run the script for the entire country and make these .osm files
available.    (i already make the ds version of it, it would take 2 weeks or
so to process the whole thing)   with 3 people working on it)

script2 - decide on if to use geobaseNHN2osm or canvec rivers/water areas.
the plus for geobase is the nice waterbasins  & the water direction flow.
and the plus for canvec is that its in nice nts tiles already
a - the script to 'slice' the waterbasin into a 5x5 grid is made and so all
25 .osm files can be made available.

6 - keep the googledocs chart upto date listing the canvec status &
geobaseNHN status.  So then a topo local area mapper (contact) is listed.
(as that local area mapper is the most familar with whats going on)

6a-also convert the full Aborigional Lands (geobase) file.  and the National
Protected areas file.
(BTW the Land Information Ontario data, as available will knock your socks
off & inside out, as they already make nice small files showing the diffs
for updates).

7 -  While people across the country are working on simply opening up the
.osm files and deciding for themselves on what to copy-in.   The for
advanced method (web2.0) that is able to also keep track of it, (since its
smart & can detect what the current status is).  this method can be
developed.

7a - one idea is that we take this method international and have this
back-end database able to hold ALL of the data out there that can be
imported.  And use it list a holding cell.  So those who have data
avaaialble can upload it to the div.openstreetmap.org API and have that as
an overlay.

.....

ARGH.... point 7 & 7a (with a highlight of 1-6) was what i was going to
explain when i was CUT OFF from the skype chat.

ARGH!!!

Have a super day,
cheers,
Sam

On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 5:50 PM, Daniel Bégin <jfd553 at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Frank,
>
> The problem is confined in and around Laval area. It won't be necessary to
> remove the roads because there is already a lot of work that have been done
> and I am completing the correction - using JOSM.  If the community give me
> enough time ;-)
>
> It will be all set properly soon :-)
>
> By the way, why using only Geobase while Canvec is identical.  I have the
> impression the initial decision was based on the impression Geobase was
> better. Am I right?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Daniel
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Frank Steggink [mailto:steggink at steggink.org]
> Sent: December 11, 2009 18:24
> To: Daniel Bégin
> Cc: talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] FW: Canvec import in Montréal with ? names
>
> On second thought: obviously a lot of work has gone in it, and many tags
> are already set. I haven't looked at it, but probably the roads are also
> being linked up with the existing grid. There might be some
> inconsistencies with Geobase, but I don't think that will really be a
> problem. Actually, Daniel is our in-house expert on this matter, so he
> should be able to tell :)
>
> JOSM has some good tools to select features, and edit their tags. With
> this it shouldn't be too hard to unset all tags with question marks.
> There is also a number of duplicate roads, which can be located with the
> Validator tool, as well as some roads of which the classification needs
> to change. On Hwy 13 some green (trunk) sections stand out. Bridges?
> I'll have a look at this.
>
> Along many motorways there are unclassified roads. Normally I would
> change them to motorway_link, but in Montreal most of them are secondary
> or tertiary. I think this depends on whether there are buildings along
> it, correct? Perhaps this is best to be fixed by someone familiar with
> this area. I could also change it, and someone else can update my
> corrections.
>
> Frank
>
> Frank Steggink wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'll create a number of OSM files based on Geobase which can be
> > imported by Daniel. Re. the existing data, it might be better to
> > remove it, although I don't know how much it is. Daniel, are your
> > imports only confined to Laval, or do they extend other tiles? I can
> > create a script which can undo your changes. I've created something
> > similar to clean up the mess after a few early botched Geobase imports
> > of myself.
> >
> > Do we all agree to remove this data, and import Geobase instead? This
> > conversion process has proven the test of time now. I can make a
> > number of NTS tiles with Geobase data available.
> >
> > As Sam mentioned, it was indeed the intention to use Geobase for the
> > road import. The tags which are set on Canvec data (by shp2osm.jar /
> > canvec2osm.py) are mostly OK, except for roads. I should have said
> > that when I asked you why you used Canvec, instead of Geobase.
> > Technically the source data is the same, but not the result as
> > converted to OSM ;)
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Daniel Bégin wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi all, I'm guilty!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Actually, I'm importing the Canvec road network in Laval (north of
> >> Montreal) because I've done a lot GPS mapping in this area.  Last
> >> week I used canvec-to-osm to convert the rest of the road network.
> >> So, if the tags are not appropriate, something should be modified in
> >> the application.
> >>
> >>
> >> Curiously, I used the same application few weeks ago near Sherbrooke
> >> area and did not have that problem?!!  Someone can explain it to me?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> However, I am in the process of correcting the data I imported. It
> >> has not only odd tags but a problem using JOSM creates a lot of
> >> duplicate ways.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Which tags do you suggest I keep/remove? Pierre-Luc suggested me to
> >> remove tags with "?" values, any other suggestions? I can easily
> >> removed odd tags at the same time I'm correcting my ways.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Daniel
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >>
> >> From: talk-ca-bounces at openstreetmap.org
> >> [mailto:talk-ca-bounces at openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Pierre-Luc
> >> Beaudoin
> >>
> >> Sent: December 10, 2009 23:18
> >>
> >> To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap
> >>
> >> Subject: [Talk-ca] Canvec import in Montréal with ? names
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I've been a little disconnected about the whole import process. Tonight
> >>
> >> I've seen CanVec streets appear in my neighboorhood with odd tags such
> >>
> >> as:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.509963468565353&lon=-73.561728000640869
> &zoom=18<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.509963468565353&lon=-73.561728000640869%0A&zoom=18>
> >>
> >>
> >> name = "?"
> >>
> >> name2= "?"
> >>
> >> address:street:leftside="?"
> >>
> >> address:street:rightside="?"
> >>
> >> is_in="?"
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I believe such approach is unproductive as it takes quite a lot of work
> >>
> >> to clean up the tags afterwards or even to print a nice map without ?
> >>
> >> everywhere.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Tags should not be set to FIXME or "?".  They should not be set. Then
> >>
> >> they'll show up on the "no name" layer. Please someone fix that import
> >>
> >> script. :)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Pierre-Luc
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
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