[Talk-ca] Transient roads

[James Ewen]

On Sat, Feb 20, 2010 at 11:38 PM, Sam Vekemans
<acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well... 'cutline' is defined as a 'way' in the canvec data, although
> it is really an area. As 'landuse=clear_cut' (or natural=clear_cut;
> crowdsource=beavers)

We're going to have to get you out of the bright lights of the city,
and back into the bush... a cutline is just that, a line cut through
the bush. Most usually, the cutline is created to allow seismic crews
access to lay out geophone arrays used to capture subsurface structure
using reflection seismology. A cut block normally refers to an area of
land in which harvesting of timber is to take place.

Here's a link to a google Streetview of a typical cutline in the area.
http://tinyurl.com/ydr2fde and the access to the road in question from
Highway 63 http://tinyurl.com/mlbv225. This is a real road, the winter
ice road peels off to the right in a couple hundred meters. Here's a
link to the gpx trace of it, plus a few miles before it coming down
63. http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/VE6SRV/traces/628440 Pull it
into Google Earth, and have a look at the area. You can see where
someone has tried to get through on a quad, but probably didn't get
very far. It takes a very specialized vehicle to be able to traverse
this type of terrain in the summer.
http://www.foremost.ca/index_nodwell.php These machines can handle the
muskeg, but they can't float across deeper water.

> Usually, in accessable areas, there is an 'unofficial' path that gets
> warn down after use.
> In the summer, these become great Motercycle/ATV tracks & in the
> summer, it makes for great landuse debate with the Hiking, cycling &
> Equestrian community. ... Getting the land owner(s) all confused. ....
> As its the beavers property to begin with. :@)

Well, some of it gets accessed by quad and ATV in the summer, but
you're looking for lots of trouble doing so. Hiking could probably be
done with hip waders, and snow shoes. Cycling is completely out of the
question unless you want to carry the bike on you back while walking
in hip waders wearing snowshoes. Equestrian is a possibility, but only
if you can ride a swamp donkey.
http://tinyurl.com/ydpq3kt


> Since we dont tag for the render.
> A 'cutline' which it actually is, can be tagged as 'man_made=cutline'
> route=winter_road'

Yeah, but the winter road doesn't always follow the cutline. The road
defines it's own path, sometimes following a cut line where the
cutline heads in the right direction, and other times creating it's
own way. If it were up to me to be defining the tags used, and how to
render, I would tag it with surface : ice_road, access : winter only,
and then draw the road as a dashed version of the road type, and have
"Winter Access Only" written alongside the way.

> I'll check the canvec features & make a new message about that. ...
> And slightly more sensable at that.
>
> Thanks for bringing that up :-)

I'm not really sure what you're going to make more sensible... if
you're going to change the definition of a cutline to make it describe
an area versus a way, then you will be creating a problem.

> But im sure someone else can ACTUALLY answer the origional question.

Well, part of the fun of participating in OSM and creating a map is
trying to come up with ways of describing features in a manner in
which everyone can understand that which is trying to be conveyed.

When you grab a map, and use it to decide on how to get from point A
to point B, you probably picture the types of roads that you see on
the map based on your idea of what each road type is. If you have a
fancy sports car, you are probably going to automatically disregard
that rough trail through the bush over a high mountain pass, and want
to stick to the high-grade highway, even though the trail is only 10
miles long, whereas the nice paved highway is a 50 mile tour around
the mountain. Someone with a 4X4 however may choose the 10 mile long
trail.

Similarly, when I look at the OSM map, and see this nice road going to
the block valve that I need to access, but it says Winter Access Only,
and it's the middle of July, I'm going to probably look at hiring a
helicopter to get me into the site, rather than sink my company work
truck into the muskeg.

James
VE6SRV