[Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon

Sam Vekemans acrosscanadatrails at gmail.com
Wed Mar 17 16:17:05 GMT 2010

Sure, i'll help with that.

The Dempster Highway portion that physically has the 'TCT logo' needs
to have a relation route.

However, it CAN be tagged as a 'rcn bicycle route' because in that
province it is a 'regional cycle route'.

If it is not provincially designated 'state=proposed' works just fine.
And even route=ncn state=proposed would also work.

On a national scale, the TCT is not a 'National Cycle Trail' but a
'mixed use greenway with different designated uses'
(that in turn, makes me pull my hair out)

Also, the entire highway should be tagged with a relation route, for
its highway designation.

The actual name of the road should not say 'Trans Canada Trail'.

When your done marking where where the physical road is, please let me
know, then we can figure out what the best answer is. :)

Overall, my aim is to get the entire network that is bicycle=yes as
well as foot=yes for the entire country, so at a minimum, the actual
road/track/path/footway/cycleway is actually mapped first.
Then we can muck about with relations & labels at a later date.

So ya, maybe the better answer is to say 'yup, sure You are local
expert, since i have never been there, its not my place to say how it
should be tagged'.

Yup, its what i do.

Hopefully that helped a little.

Solving the worlds largest puzzle isnt exactly the easiest task :-)

Mapping the country in painfull detail is actually easier than sorting
the Trans Canada Trail :-)

Sam Vekemans
Across Canada Trails

On 3/17/10, Tim Francois <sk1ppy14 at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> OK, so I came into some free time and completed the tracing of the
> Dempster Highway into OSM. Some points:
> 1) I have tagged it as a primary highway. It is, after all, called the
> Dempster Highway. Also, it is the only ground link to Inuvik, thus
> fairly important
> 2) I have tagged the surface as gravel.
> 3) I came across an unfinished Dempster Highway portion in Northern
> Yukon. This was tagged as a tertiary highway, and as part of the
> Trans-Canada Trail (ncn and ncn_ref attributes). I deleted the portions
> for which I had accurate GPS traces, and merged the two somewhere inside
> of NT, changing the highway to primary.
> 4) The entire Dempster Highway is now tagged as a Trans-Canada Trail.
> 5) I've also tagged as bicycle=yes, as a) I saw many cyclists and b) the
> tertiary route I came across also had this!
> I'll be adding in further POI's along the route when I can extract my
> diary files, and going on to update the rest of what we travelled in the
> summer.
> Question: Is there a Trans-Canada Trail relation I should have used?
> Couldn't find one...
> Tim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Ewen <ve6srv at gmail.com>
> To: Talk-CA OpenStreetMap <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Highways in Yukon
> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:59:25 -0700
> On Thu, Mar 11, 2010 at 7:18 PM, Richard Weait <richard at weait.com> wrote:
>>> One has to think about how the final map is going to be displayed.
>> Now that is a little close to tagging for the renderer.
> Yes, but I've been chastised about that statement before... we are not
> tagging incorrectly to simply work around the renderer rules, but
> rather tagging as to road classification importance, which the
> renderer simply renders differently. If the data stored in the OSM
> database is not useful to the user, then it may as well not be
> included.
> Back to my GPS... the major roads in the TeleAtlas database cause
> routing problems. The routing routine will take me on a 350 km detour
> just to stay on highways, rather than a 200 km direct route on what it
> considers a major road. These major roads are indistinguishable from
> the highways as far as physical features are concerned. Speed limits
> are also identical.
> I'd prefer to have these major roads promoted to the same
> classification as the highways (in fact they are highways of the same
> classification as the others)... as a side effect, the renderer in the
> GPS would end up showing these roads that were previously not visible.
> Just because the renderer changes the display doesn't mean that I am
> specifically trying to misrepresent the road for the renderer.
> The renderers take the tags we use into account when deciding on how
> to display a way, so it is only appropriate that we also take into
> account how the renderer will display the tags we are deciding to use.
> It would be inappropriate to tag a stream as a coastline just to get
> it to show up on a wide area map... it is however appropriate in my
> opinion to tag an important major road (read only road) across a large
> expanse of territory at an appropriate classification level, despite
> what the rendering engines will do with it.
> The database and renderers are pretty much married to each other.
> Without the database, the renderers are useless. Without the
> renderers, it's pretty hard to visualize the data.
> James
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