[Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et adresses

Adam Martin s.adam.martin at gmail.com
Mon Jan 6 21:10:24 UTC 2014


The effort behind OSM in terms of the map is to obtain, enter and maintain
accurate and up-to-date data. Any effort to create a community is ours as
the Canadian users of the editing tools.

As such, the assertion that importing should be discouraged is one for the
benefit of the map and not the community. Since the map is our primary
concern, it seems reasonable to seek to limit this activity to those that
have been proven to be skilled in the process. New users could be
encouraged to use the sandbox to gain these skills.

Adam
On Jan 6, 2014 2:45 PM, "Pierre Béland" <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Richard
>
> we are trying to build a community, to work with various governments to
> provide some data.
>
> At the same time, we should bring a minimum of nuances in discussing in
> subjects like the imports.
>
> Yes there are mappers that make errors, and yes we should help them to do
> better, we should take care to have good guidelines, good follow-up.
>
> And this not only for imports. The same with field surveys and Aerial
> imagery.  If you use a GPS to locate a store, there is good chance that you
> will not place a commerce at the right place and even place it on the wrong
> side of the street.  And if you trace from Imagery in sandy areas dozens of
> paths going in all directions, this is not meaningful.
>
> It is very difficult to discuss, when somebody comes with such a radical
> position as you present every time we discuss of imports.
>
> Let's hope that we can have  more constructive ways to discuss on this
> list in 2014.
>
>
> Pierre
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *De :* Richard Weait <richard at weait.com>
> *À :* Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> *Cc :* Talk- CA Open Street Map <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>; "
> diane.mercier at gmail.com" <diane.mercier at gmail.com>
> *Envoyé le :* Lundi 6 janvier 2014 12h49
> *Objet :* Re: [Talk-ca] OSM New-York - Import de contours de batiments et
> adresses
>
> On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:58 AM, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
> > Richard
> >
> > I dont think that we should advocate against import.
>
> Then we differ.
>
> I've been advocating for "better imports" with every import I've seen
> since 2006.  While the tools have improved, the results for the most
> part, just haven't.
>
> >  Let's try in 2014 to
> > be more positive with that and suggest ways to do it better.
>
> You might continue to believe that "imports are just fine", I do not.
> Imports are harmfull to OpenStreetMap and to the OpenStreetMap
> community in all except extremely limited circumstances.
>
> Invariably, when I add that "except in extremely limited
> circumstances", the listener will presume that they are in fact the
> exception.
>
> Invariably, they aren't the exception.
>
> They are well intentioned.  They are in love with data.  They want a
> better OpenStreetMap.  And then they make an import of some sort and
> cause harm to the data base and community that they then never clean
> up because it is too much work.
>
> The linked thread regarding the NYC building import discusses ways to
>
> do it better.
>
>
> The after action report on any decent effort at an import has
> discussed ways to do better in the future.  Technically, essentially
> every import has been better than the one before.  To date,
> overwhelmingly, better is still just not good enough.
>
> My recommendation is never to import.  "Import" should be a very dirty
> word in OpenStreetMap.
>
> By comparison, I think we should focus on doing the best mapping that
> we can with our surveys, and with external resources that we have
> permission to use.  Use external resources* by comparing each item
> with all of the other existing resources, including imagery, existing
> OpenStreetMap data, your survey, local knowledge, and curate the
> external source before placing it into OpenStreetMap.
>
> But never import.**
>
> Yes. It's way slower.  Yes, it takes more time, and a more-experienced
> mapper.  But it is what you owe to the project, the community and to
> your reputation as a mapper.
>
> To be clear, I love that external resources are becoming available to
> OpenStreetMap in greater numbers.  I have every bit as much "data
> love" for a new data set as the next mapper.  Dumping huge amounts of
> un-curated data into the OpenStreetMap data base at one time is not
> the way to use that data, or OpenStreetMap to best effect.
>
> * Only the ones for which we have explicit permission to use.
> ** except in those extremely limited circumstances which don't apply here.
>
>
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>
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