[Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads

Sat Jun 25 19:59:48 UTC 2016

The map shows what’s there. Hopefully it can also show private- or public-access status, but its job is not to babysit potential trespassers by keeping parts of the landscape secret.

Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scruss at gmail.com] wrote:

> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out of the way of.
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> 
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use them.

--
Michael Zajac
http://zajac.ca/
+1-204-943-6596

> On 2016-06-25, at 13:52, talk-ca-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
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>   1. Re: aerial imagery for missing roads (Alan Richards)
>   2. Re: aerial imagery for missing roads (Pierre Béland)
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> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 16:31:42 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Alan Richards <alarobric at gmail.com>
> To: Martijn van Exel <m at rtijn.org>, Kevin Farrugia
> 	<kevinfarrugia at gmail.com>
> Cc: talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> Message-ID:
> 	<1311B39AA81E624E.AD0720C3-33A3-4256-87D1-D01909F9B307 at mail.outlook.com>
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> Most forest service roads in BC are not private. They may be built by private logging companies and may occasionally be gated, but the majority are on crown land and are open for recreational use. Road conditions vary wildly and roads are often unmaintained if active logging is not in progress in the area. 
> While I agree that typically these roads should not be used for typical intercity routing, they are often used for recreation, hunting, fishing etc. 
> 
> Alan (alarobric)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:59 AM -0700, "Martijn van Exel" <m at rtijn.org> wrote:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Interesting, that seems to be worth a look! Do you happen to know who these open data people are? Do similar open data groups / people exist in other provinces?
> Martijn
> On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:16 AM, Kevin Farrugia <kevinfarrugia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Morning everyone,
> I was looking at information on one of the Province's imagery programs (SWOOP: https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/documents/3609/lio-swoop2015-eng-final-2014-05-13.pdf) and I had previously assumed that the imagery was paid for by the province but the rights still owned by the imagery company, which is the case where I work.  However, it looks like they might purchase the imagery outright because it says the imagery is owned by the Queen's Printer, which is the holder of the Crown's copyrights in Ontario.
> If that's the case you can try contacting their open data team to see if they can persuade the Ministry of Natural Resources to release the data openly under the Open Government Directive as a WMS/TIFFs or you can lodge a FIPPA request to have it released (I don't know how this affects you or us being able to use it in OSM, however).
> You can check out what their imagery looks like here to see if it's worth your time contacting them: http://www.giscoeapp.lrc.gov.on.ca/matm/Index.html?site=Make_A_Topographic_Map&viewer=MATM&locale=en-US (in Map Layers turn off Topographic Data to see the imagery).
> -Kevin (Kevo)
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 25, 2016 at 7:52 AM, Begin Daniel <jfd553 at hotmail.com> wrote:
> Missing access=no and access=private tags I understand...
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> 
> From: Stewart C. Russell [mailto:scruss at gmail.com]
> 
> Sent: June-24-16 22:45
> 
> To: talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> 
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> 
> 
> 
> On 2016-06-23 10:26 PM, Pierre Béland wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>> Going north outside of urban zones, there are many tracks for lumber
> 
>> areas. Hard to assess the accessibility of such roads for cars.
> 
> 
> 
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large, and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck coming that you need to get out of the way of.
> 
> 
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> 
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to use them.
> 
> 
> 
> cheers,
> 
>  Stewart
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
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> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 25 Jun 2016 18:48:39 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr>
> To: Martijn van Exel <m at rtijn.org>, "Stewart C. Russell"
> 	<scruss at gmail.com>
> Cc: "talk-ca at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> Message-ID:
> 	<1624224864.2286278.1466880519205.JavaMail.yahoo at mail.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Au Québec comme en Colombie-Britannique et sans doute dans les autres provinces, ce sont effectivement des routes publiques construites et utilisées principalement pour le transport du bois. Il est possible d'y circuer pour des activités récréatives telles chasse et pêche. Cependant, les camions remorque lourdement chargés roulent vite, au milieu de la route et projettent des cailloux. ! La surface peut aussi être inégale. Plusieurs utilisent des véhicules 4x4 jugeant trop risqué d'utiliser une voiture.
> 
> Il est difficile de classifier ces routes, de décrire l'état de la route et les risques associés.   Des contributeurs à distance avec un projet Maproulette n'auraient pas l'info adéquate pour classifier ces routes et y ajouter les clés adéquates pour décrire l'état de ces routes. 
> Pierre 
> 
> 
>      De : Martijn van Exel <m at rtijn.org>
> À : Stewart C. Russell <scruss at gmail.com> 
> Cc : "talk-ca at openstreetmap.org" <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>
> Envoyé le : samedi 25 juin 2016 10h53
> Objet : Re: [Talk-ca] aerial imagery for missing roads
> 
> Should we assume that a reasonable amount of these private or even dangerous routes have been mapped as public, potentially routable? What would be a good way to inspect these? Do we have reference data on these logging roads? A MapRoulette challenge could be useful.
> Martijn
> 
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 8:45 PM, Stewart C. Russell <scruss at gmail.com> wrote:
> Most logging roads, certainly in BC, are private. While they look large,
> and make tempting additions to the map, accidentally routing traffic
> along them could be fatal. Logging trucks don't (can't!) stop, and
> unless you have authorization and the right radio to call in the
> checkpoints, the controller won't be able to tell you if there's a truck
> coming that you need to get out of the way of.
> 
> CanVec also mistakenly digitized a bunch of private wind farm access
> roads in Ontario, such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/39334427 .
> While using these might not be life-threatening, it is trespassing to
> use them.
> 
> 
> 
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