[Talk-ca] Saints in street names in Ontario

[Jarek Piórkowski]

Hi all,

I have now made the edit at
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Canadian_tagging_guidelines&type=revision&diff=1907677&oldid=1898100
and I saw that Matthew has edited a few of the more prominent examples
already.

Thanks!

--Jarek

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 at 17:09, Matthew Darwin <matthew at mdarwin.ca> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It sounds fine for me.
>
> On 2019-09-10 7:54 a.m., john whelan wrote:
>
> Looks good to me and if Matthew has cast his eye over it and not spotted anything major then I think we can safely say Ottawa is happy with it.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 9:57 PM Pierre Béland via Talk-ca, <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>> Cela semble bien préciser, mais les collègues d'Ontario pourront mieux répondre.
>>
>> Pierre
>>
>> Envoyé à partir de Yahoo Courriel sur Android
>>
>> Le lun., sept. 9 2019 à 3:11 PM, Jarek Piórkowski
>> <jarek at piorkowski.ca> a écrit :
>> Hi Pierre,
>>
>> (I responded via email at first, but realized one more thing, so
>> adding on and sending to talk-ca:)
>>
>> The proposed wiki addition does start with "In Ontario". However
>> thanks bringing this up, as I realized I forgot to account for parts
>> of Ontario where streets will be named in French - this change should
>> not apply to those.
>>
>> I am changing the suggested wording to:
>>
>>     In parts of **Ontario** that primarily name streets in English,
>> street and road names containing initial "St." or "St" should only be
>> expanded to "Saint" when "Saint" is common usage for that street. To
>> be clear, this overrides the general rule
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
>> for "St." which does not stand for "street". As with other names in
>> OSM, factors you might want to consider when determining common usage
>> include spellings posted on street signs ("on the ground" rule),
>> spellings used in local media, GeoBase street name data, and spellings
>> used by official municipal sources including open data datasets. See
>> discussion on talk-ca [0].
>>
>> Would this wording be fine for Ottawa and other bilingual areas, or am
>> I missing a pitfall?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> --Jarek
>>
>> On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 08:51, Pierre Béland <pierzenh at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>> >
>> > Marek
>> >
>> > Ces instructions ne s'appliquent pas à toutes les provinces. Il faudrait donc indiquer sur la page wiki à quelles provinces elles s'appliquent
>> >
>> > Pierre
>> >
>> > Envoyé à partir de Yahoo Courriel sur Android
>> >
>> > Le lun., sept. 9 2019 à 2:51 AM, Jarek Piórkowski
>> > <jarek at piorkowski.ca> a écrit :
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > I'm following up on the thread about saints and lack thereof in street
>> > names from a couple of months ago (see archives [1] [2]).
>> >
>> > I would like to suggest the following wording added to Canadian
>> > tagging guidelines at
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Street_names
>> > :
>> >
>> >    In Ontario, street and road names containing initial "St." or "St"
>> > should only be expanded to "Saint" when "Saint" is common usage for
>> > that street. To be clear, this overrides the general rule
>> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
>> > for "St." which does not stand for "street". As with other names in
>> > OSM, factors you might want to consider when determining common usage
>> > include spellings posted on street signs ("on the ground" rule),
>> > spellings used in local media, GeoBase street name data, and spellings
>> > used by official municipal sources including open data datasets. See
>> > discussion on talk-ca [0].
>> >
>> > where [0] would be a link to this message/thread archive. (Comments on
>> > the wording and suggestions appreciated!)
>> >
>> > Is anyone opposed to this change?
>> >
>> > I have attempted to advertise/announce this proposed change. This was:
>> > - posted in this mailing list in March/April of this year (some quoted
>> > below, see list archives for more discussion)
>> > - I posted a note https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1741334 in
>> > Toronto with a link to this thread (supportive responses from Kevo and
>> > DannyMcD)
>> > - on April 10, sent a message [2] with a link to the note to editors
>> > who were showing up as top editors on
>> > http://osmstats.neis-one.org/?item=countries&country=Canada
>> > (they aren't necessarily representative of the community, but it's
>> > really the closest we can reasonably do given our current tooling) [3]
>> > (no private message responses)
>> > - posted on OSM Canada Slack on 17 August
>> > https://osm-ca.slack.com/archives/CASP8UQNT/p1566053199044200
>> > (supportive responses from Matthew Darwin and Eric Geiler)
>> > - on August 27, sent a few more private messages to editors in top 50
>> > on the stats page who had done Ontario edits [4] (no private message
>> > responses)
>> >
>> > If you know of anyone else who might have a further opinion on this,
>> > please forward as possible.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > --Jarek
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ca mailing list
>> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ca mailing list
> Talk-ca at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca