[Talk-ca] Saints in street names in Ontario

Matthew Darwin matthew at mdarwin.ca
Tue Sep 24 21:09:08 UTC 2019


Hi,

It sounds fine for me.

On 2019-09-10 7:54 a.m., john whelan wrote:
> Looks good to me and if Matthew has cast his eye over it and not 
> spotted anything major then I think we can safely say Ottawa is 
> happy with it.
>
> Cheerio John
>
> On Mon, Sep 9, 2019, 9:57 PM Pierre Béland via Talk-ca, 
> <talk-ca at openstreetmap.org <mailto:talk-ca at openstreetmap.org>> wrote:
>
>     Cela semble bien préciser, mais les collègues d'Ontario pourront
>     mieux répondre.
>
>     Pierre
>
>     Envoyé à partir de Yahoo Courriel sur Android
>     <https://go.onelink.me/107872968?pid=InProduct&c=Global_Internal_YGrowth_AndroidEmailSig__AndroidUsers&af_wl=ym&af_sub1=Internal&af_sub2=Global_YGrowth&af_sub3=EmailSignature>
>
>         Le lun., sept. 9 2019 à 3:11 PM, Jarek Piórkowski
>         <jarek at piorkowski.ca <mailto:jarek at piorkowski.ca>> a écrit :
>         Hi Pierre,
>
>         (I responded via email at first, but realized one more thing, so
>         adding on and sending to talk-ca:)
>
>         The proposed wiki addition does start with "In Ontario". However
>         thanks bringing this up, as I realized I forgot to account
>         for parts
>         of Ontario where streets will be named in French - this
>         change should
>         not apply to those.
>
>         I am changing the suggested wording to:
>
>             In parts of **Ontario** that primarily name streets in
>         English,
>         street and road names containing initial "St." or "St"
>         should only be
>         expanded to "Saint" when "Saint" is common usage for that
>         street. To
>         be clear, this overrides the general rule
>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
>         for "St." which does not stand for "street". As with other
>         names in
>         OSM, factors you might want to consider when determining
>         common usage
>         include spellings posted on street signs ("on the ground" rule),
>         spellings used in local media, GeoBase street name data, and
>         spellings
>         used by official municipal sources including open data
>         datasets. See
>         discussion on talk-ca [0].
>
>         Would this wording be fine for Ottawa and other bilingual
>         areas, or am
>         I missing a pitfall?
>
>         Thanks,
>         --Jarek
>
>         On Mon, 9 Sep 2019 at 08:51, Pierre Béland
>         <pierzenh at yahoo.fr <mailto:pierzenh at yahoo.fr>> wrote:
>         >
>         > Marek
>         >
>         > Ces instructions ne s'appliquent pas à toutes les
>         provinces. Il faudrait donc indiquer sur la page wiki à
>         quelles provinces elles s'appliquent
>         >
>         > Pierre
>         >
>         > Envoyé à partir de Yahoo Courriel sur Android
>         >
>         > Le lun., sept. 9 2019 à 2:51 AM, Jarek Piórkowski
>         > <jarek at piorkowski.ca <mailto:jarek at piorkowski.ca>> a écrit :
>         > Hello,
>         >
>         > I'm following up on the thread about saints and lack
>         thereof in street
>         > names from a couple of months ago (see archives [1] [2]).
>         >
>         > I would like to suggest the following wording added to
>         Canadian
>         > tagging guidelines at
>         >
>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Canadian_tagging_guidelines#Street_names
>         > :
>         >
>         >    In Ontario, street and road names containing initial
>         "St." or "St"
>         > should only be expanded to "Saint" when "Saint" is common
>         usage for
>         > that street. To be clear, this overrides the general rule
>         >
>         https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Names#Abbreviation_.28don.27t_do_it.29
>         > for "St." which does not stand for "street". As with other
>         names in
>         > OSM, factors you might want to consider when determining
>         common usage
>         > include spellings posted on street signs ("on the ground"
>         rule),
>         > spellings used in local media, GeoBase street name data,
>         and spellings
>         > used by official municipal sources including open data
>         datasets. See
>         > discussion on talk-ca [0].
>         >
>         > where [0] would be a link to this message/thread archive.
>         (Comments on
>         > the wording and suggestions appreciated!)
>         >
>         > Is anyone opposed to this change?
>         >
>         > I have attempted to advertise/announce this proposed
>         change. This was:
>         > - posted in this mailing list in March/April of this year
>         (some quoted
>         > below, see list archives for more discussion)
>         > - I posted a note
>         https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/1741334 in
>         > Toronto with a link to this thread (supportive responses
>         from Kevo and
>         > DannyMcD)
>         > - on April 10, sent a message [2] with a link to the note
>         to editors
>         > who were showing up as top editors on
>         > http://osmstats.neis-one.org/?item=countries&country=Canada
>         > (they aren't necessarily representative of the community,
>         but it's
>         > really the closest we can reasonably do given our current
>         tooling) [3]
>         > (no private message responses)
>         > - posted on OSM Canada Slack on 17 August
>         > https://osm-ca.slack.com/archives/CASP8UQNT/p1566053199044200
>         > (supportive responses from Matthew Darwin and Eric Geiler)
>         > - on August 27, sent a few more private messages to
>         editors in top 50
>         > on the stats page who had done Ontario edits [4] (no
>         private message
>         > responses)
>         >
>         > If you know of anyone else who might have a further
>         opinion on this,
>         > please forward as possible.
>         >
>         > Thanks,
>         > --Jarek
>         >
>         >
>
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