[Talk-ca] openstreetmap.org tile rendering unreliable

Tue Jul 26 15:37:15 UTC 2022

For having played with the issue  I can report the following, not to make that thread drag forever.

1. The issue is not that tiles are not computed/rendered on the server, they are rather not transferred/downloaded by the browser. The tiles simply stop coming. Only happen when browsing openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org/>. 
2. Reserting the caches and browsing history seems to cure the issue only for a short time and it comes back quickly.
3. I have that issue on MacOS Montery only since the latest Safari updated 15.6 which came out a week ago
4. I tried on older mac that is still running Safari 15.5 and openstreetmap. still works fine in that browser. Tiles come as expected as you pan and zoom the map.

So it seems that some of the latest security patches in Safari 15.6 broke the openstreetmap.org <http://openstreetmap.org/> site, the frontend, not so much the tile/rendering engine behind it. But I know little about how those servers run so, here it is.

Martin

> On Jul 26, 2022, at 3:21 , Paul Norman <osm at paulnorman.ca> wrote:
> 
> There's been a fair amount of information given in this thread. Unfortunately, most of it is wrong, leading to much confusion.
> 
> In no particular order, I want to address a few points
> 
> The degraded service on July 18th is unrelated, as it only impacted the standard tile layer for 2.5 hours. It's best not to bring up unrelated events, as they only lead to confusion.
> 
> Several people have been talking about the north american render server (pyrene) without even checking that Martin is being served by that server! It's bad to speculate without information, as that only leads to confusion. I would guess it's about a 50% chance they are being served from pyrene, and 50% from the European servers.
> 
> Even if they're on pyrene, it doesn't establish that it's capacity has anything to do with the problems experienced. Although it's true that pyrene no longer has the capacity to serve all of the traffic from the Americas, it isn't being sent all of that traffic. It is at peak capacity between 8 AM and 6 PM EDT, and during that time the main impact is not that users see empty tiles, it's that the map is not up to date.
> 
> It is better to ask more questions and not have an answer then to give a possibly wrong answer and misinform someone, which is what has happened here.
> 
> There's two questions that could be asked as follow-up, which can then guide towards a correct diagnosis.
> 
> The first is for information from the https://tile.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/debug <https://tile.openstreetmap.org/cgi-bin/debug> page. This will reliably get you a user's IP and what cache POP they are being served from. This is very limited information, and in most cases I would go for the second option.
> 
> The second is to get the user to use the browser developer tools to see a) if the tiles are timing out or error codes being returned, b) what tiles in particular are showing problems, c) what the POP and render server for the problem tiles is, using the headers. It's important to remember that this render server can be a different one for each tile, and will not be the same as the debug page.
> 
> I asked the first because this is enough information for me to confirm or disprove a couple of theories. I'm not going into details on those theories, because there's no point confusing a user with possibly incorrect theories.
> 
> On 2022-07-25 5:06 p.m., Pierre Béland via Talk-ca wrote:
>> Daniel,
>> 
>> Les tuiles z13+ sont mise-à-jour assez rapidement. Par contre, compte-tenu de la surcharge des serveurs de tuile, la décision prise est de mettre-à-jour moins fréquemment les tuiles z12-.
>> 
>> Et pour montrer encore la complexité à résoudre de tels problèmes, il faut lire le billet https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1146706362 <https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1146706362>
>> tomhughes <https://github.com/tomhughes> commented on 27 May <https://github.com/openstreetmap/operations/issues/625#issuecomment-1139501453> où on parle entre autres des règles de rendu
>>    The north american render server is quite busy (at least relative to the others) and
>>    it will prioritise rendering tiles which don't exist yet over rerendering out of date ones when it is busy.
>> 
>>  
>> Pierre 
>> 
>> 
>> Le lundi 25 juillet 2022 à 16 h 39 min 19 s UTC−4, Daniel @jfd553 <jfd553 at hotmail.com> <mailto:jfd553 at hotmail.com> a écrit :
>> 
>> 
>> Merci Pierre,
>> 
>> Malgré avoir vidé la cache de mon navigateur, certaines régions ne sont toujours pas rendues après une semaine. Un nouveau serveur sera le bienvenu.
>> 
>> Daniel
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
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