[Talk-dk] Registrering af gravhøje

Nico niconj at gmail.com
Søn Jan 14 21:42:05 UTC 2018

Tekstuelle data i databaserne stilles til rådighed af Slots- og
Kulturstyrelsen under Creative Commons' CC0 betingelser. iflg.

2018-01-14 20:53 GMT+01:00 Leif Lodahl <leiflodahl at gmail.com>:

> Hi Frederik,
> I can understand that Michael contacted you regarding my edits. That is
> the reason I reaised the matter here on the Danish mailing list. Please
> note that Michael did not use this list before I openned the question. I
> also beleive that we are able so solve things our selves in the local
> community.
> I can understand that you haven't read earlier posting where we have
> discussed the insulting language Michael is using in his comments. Comments
> that from my oppinion is scaring away especially new mappers. We need new
> mappers and comment in such language is not motivating for new members of
> the community.
> It is obvious that you have the impression that I'm not willing to listen.
> Thats a wrong impression and a glanse down this list will show that I have
> asked questions when I was in doubt. When Michaels comments has become too
> insulting for me, I have also asked for help on the list as descriped in
> the code of conduct.
> I have several years of experience in free software and free data
> communities, and what I have learned is to listen. If you look at this
> thread Michael is the one that doesn't listen. Every body else agrees that
> I'm allowed to do what I'm doing. If you read the terms and conditions, the
> agency of cultural enheritance actually encourages people and companies to
> use their data.
> In my and many other community members, there is no doubt that my mapping
> is legal. Every body else than Michael considers this whole discussion a
> waste of time.
> Even though, I have today asked the agency to answer the question wheater
> I'm allowed to use their data set to manually map the cultural artifacts.
> Until then I will continue my work.
> Cheers,
> Leif Lodahl
> 2018-01-14 19:55 GMT+01:00 Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org>:
>> Hi,
>>    I've used Google Translate to read this discussion. The important
>> points I wish to comment on are:
>> 1. Leif uses data from "kulturarv.dk" to add information to OSM. He ask
>> others to leave him alone, and not interfere with his mapping.
>> 2. Michael doubts that this is a legal use of the data, and also claims
>> that Leif's edits have been occasionally detrimental to OSM data quality
>> ("Du ændrer f.eks.ofte på ting som jeg tidligere har lavet og ikke altid
>> til det bedre.").
>> 3. Soren says that data is made publicly available in order for us to
>> use it ("#1 at de skal bruges og sættes i spil").
>> I agree that this seems to be neither an import nor a mechanical edit,
>> because Leif claims that he calls up each place individually in the
>> editor. But, if Michael is right, then Leif does engage in "armchair
>> editing" and Leif believes that his data source is superior, making
>> changes where perhaps the local mappers know better. I cannot judge this
>> becasue I don't know the situation, but Leif should certainly respect
>> data contributed by local mappers, and aim not to break anything.
>> The main point here, in my opinion, is the license question. The use of
>> kulturarv.dk must be stopped immediately, until it is 100% clear that
>> they are ok with their data being used on OpenStreetMap. This requires:
>> * either that their web site clearly says the data is public domain (or
>> some similar text)
>> * or we get a message from them that says "yes, you can use our data to
>> improve OpenStreetMap".
>> In copyright law, the default is "you are not allowed to use it". So if
>> there's no clear message that says yes,  then it's no.
>> It is wrong to assume, like Soren does, that any data made public by the
>> government or a cultural organisation on a web site is automatically
>> free for us to use; there could be many reasons why they might want to
>> allow the public to see things on their web site, but they do not want
>> someone to use the data on OpenStreetMap where it might not even be
>> obvious where the data comes from and where the data is redistributed.
>> At OpenStreetMap, we are very conservative with the data licensing - if
>> we cannot be 100% sure that the data is ok to use, then we DO NOT USE
>> IT. We don't discuss what the owner of the data might have wanted or not
>> - we ask them, and if the response is not a clear yes, then for us it is
>> a no.
>> If it should turn out that kulturarv.dk does not allow us to use their
>> data, then all 10,000 edits made by Leif will have to be removed.
>> Soren also mentions the SDFE imagery and asks if that is ok to use in
>> OSM. I have no idea - but for the imagery, the same rules count as for
>> data. There must be a clear "yes", else it's a "no". The fact that
>> certain imagery is available in iD and JOSM does not necessarily mean it
>> has been cleared for use in OSM - both editors use repositories that
>> everyone can contribute to, and to my knowledge neither the JOSM not the
>> iD development team have good enough knowledge of Danish to actually
>> review the license pages first-hand.
>> One final point. Leif feels harassed by other community members who
>> check what he's doing ("nogen der er på nakken af mig hele tiden"). I
>> understand that it can be stressful if one's actions are watched; but
>> here in OpenStreetMap, we all want the map to be good AND we want
>> OpenStreetMap's image to be good. Even today, some commercial map
>> vendors say: "Ugh, OpenStreetMap is full of piracy and stolen map data,
>> don't use it, it is illegal..." - of course that's wrong, and people
>> just say it so they can sell their "clean" data better, but this is an
>> example why we must be extremely careful with copyright. We do not want
>> to give anyone a reason to say: OSM is a pirated map. And therefore, we
>> must watch what others are doing, and if someone makes the map worse, or
>> risks to ruin our good image by using data that is not suitably
>> licensed, it is everyone's duty to prevent that from happening.
>> Bye
>> Frederik
>> --
>> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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