[Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops

Sun Nov 17 18:59:08 UTC 2013

Hi all,

Been following this discussion.

My only thoughts would be that having the name for something, such as a 
Bus Stop makes a lot of sense and it should be in a recognised field, 
not buried in a local subset of data.  However, this should be 
programmatically addressed on a national level.

My other point is that we should, never, ever, ever, never enter data or 
omit data because of the renderer.  That is rule number 1 in any data 
collection handbook, a cardinal rule in the religion of information 
storage and one of the seven deadly sins in describing anything!!!!  
:-)  As an example, I think the tagging of landuse around Coventry makes 
the map look confusing, it make Coventry look huge and merged with 
Birmingham, but that is the problem of the renderer choosing similar 
colour pallettes, Brian shouldn't stop tagging landuse correctly, just 
because it looks bad! ;-)

Jonathan

http://bigfatfrog67.me

On 14/11/2013 12:00, Andy Robinson wrote:
>
> Hi Matthijs,
>
> You have a valid point, as is the point about unnecessary tags. I 
> guess it's up to you if you want to add name tags. Just bear in mind 
> that the name tag is currently in use in Birmingham, but only for 
> those stops which have the two character plus number stop name. You 
> only see these on stop signs at major interchange points. Eg: 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/52.48209/-1.89488&layers=T
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
> *From:*Matthijs Melissen [mailto:info at matthijsmelissen.nl]
> *Sent:* 14 November 2013 10:07
> *To:* Andy Robinson
> *Subject:* RE: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops
>
> I think it would be better to additionally use the name field, because 
> that's the name that software can read. For example, when I search for 
> bus stops around me, I get a list of 10 times the word 'bus stop'. It 
> would be more useful to have the stop names there. Also, it would be 
> useful to have the stop names on the transport layer. We can not 
> expect international software to be aware of uk-specific tagging schemes.
>
> In addition, the naptan data can.be <http://can.be> wrong, and in that 
> case, the name field wouldn't duplicate the naptan data.
>
> -- Matthijs
>
> On Nov 14, 2013 7:37 AM, "Andy Robinson" <ajrlists at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ajrlists at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Since this information is already in the naptan tags why would we need to
> add it again under some other, eg name, tag?
>
> Cheers
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Matthijs Melissen [mailto:info at matthijsmelissen.nl 
> <mailto:info at matthijsmelissen.nl>]
> Sent: 14 November 2013 01:41
> To: talk-gb-westmidlands
> Subject: Re: [Talk-gb-westmidlands] Bus stops
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> > Generally I don't think adding names to bus stops adds anything to the
> > map other than when it is an Interchange name- so they're the only 
> ones I
> name.
> > Why? Generally because adding a name consisting of a street name where
> > the street name is already on the map I consider to be cartographic
> > clutter and totally redundant.  Common names also tend to duplicate
> > features that are already named on the map and so are not really
> > needed.  For transport applications the data is there to be used - 
> no need
> to add it in a name.
>
> To be honest, I don't agree with you there. Tagging for the renderer (not
> giving bus stops names because it would create a clutter) is usually 
> seen as
> a bad idea, and I believe that's the case here as well.
>
> First, on the one hand the default rendering doesn't display bus stop 
> names
> anyway, so there it wouldn't become a clutter. On the other hand, the
> Transport Map layer displays bus stops names on low zoom level, and street
> names only on the highest levels, so there the bus stop names would be
> useful to get an overview.
>
> Also don't forget that we are not creating a map, we are creating a
> geographical database. For example, you might want to ask your 
> software for
> the closest bus stop. It would be nice if you could then get the bus stop
> name as an answer, for which the name tags are necessary. Or for example,
> you might want to generate a list of all stops of a given bus route, for
> which you also need the stop names.
>
> Also, not all common names are named after features already on the map 
> (some
> are called 'middle' for example).
>
> For now, I think the best scheme I can think of would be "StreetName,
> CommonName". That would follow the name on the signs, except that we use a
> comma where there is a line break on the shield.
>
> -- Matthijs
>
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