[Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] "Unsurfaced road" and "Byway"?

[Andy Robinson (blackadder)]

David Earl [mailto:david at frankieandshadow.com] wrote:
>Sent: 17 December 2007 11:09 AM
>To: Frederik Ramm
>Cc: Andy Robinson ((blackadder)); talk-gb at openstreetmap.org; 'Abigail
>Brady'
>Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] [OSM-talk] "Unsurfaced road" and "Byway"?
>
>On 17/12/2007 10:51, Frederik Ramm wrote:
>> Andy R., Andy A.,
>>
>>> And map features is not a voted-on only list. Anyone can add what
>>> they like
>>> and others can change what they like. It's a wiki page. I just added
>>> landuse=military btw. If someone doesn't like that one then they
>>> are free to
>>> change/delete it. Same applies to any other tag.
>>
>> I'm totally with you on this. However many newcomers, and many
>> Germans, and most of all the intersection between these two groups,
>> really really crave a world where there is a right and a wrong. ("We
>> have to use identical tags the world over, otherwise routing will
>> never work" and so on.) There's not one week on the German mailing
>> list without someone presenting his ultimate reasoning which roads
>> are to be tagged what.
>>
>> It is really very difficult do convey the idea of total tagging
>> freedom, especially to newcomers. It just sounds like it's never
>> going to work and so people don't believe you. It is a real challenge
>> to explain how and why it works nonetheless. Maybe we have to create
>> a FAQ somewhere for this ("But how is it going to work if everybody
>> can just do what he likes?").
>>
>> As for the voting process, I think it has to be taken with a grain of
>> salt. Some people are doing a lot of work in that field and we
>> shouldn't disregard their work completely - it is ok to have a
>> structured process, also makes people think about what they want and
>> encourages discussion. But of course it must not claim exclusivity
>> (exclusiveness?).
>
>If tags come about by simple use, fine. But people have to know about
>them (and what they mean - it may be obvious to the inventor, but it may
>not be to others, and there are always variations and nuances the
>original author hadn't thought of).
>
>For example, man_made=mast. This is recognised by JOSM in that it has an
>icon, and presumably it is in fairly widespread use. But it isn't on
>map_features or proposed_features. So what does it mean? I've used it
>for telecommunications towers (mobile phone masts, TV transmission etc),
>but maybe the originator had in mind only one of those (or something
>bizarre like ship's masts for all I know!). (I think I might add this to
>Map_features).
>
>But if people use random tags to describe objects for which consensus
>already exists, then we have anarchy and the map will be completely
>unusable.
>

This is why I think deriving the list from planet would be much better. The
majority of tags in use already have descriptions on the wiki that can go
against a listed tag. Where an item doesn't it offers the opportunity for
those using the tag to add something. If nothing gets added then it's
probably a pretty useless tag as you say, in which case nobody will use it.
If when a planet list is periodically dumped it lists with it the statistics
of use then it provides all, including newbie's, with a clear indication of
whether it's a tag they should be using or not.

Cheers

Andy