[Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data
Philip Barnes
phil at trigpoint.me.uk
Thu May 15 12:43:11 UTC 2014
On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 09:46 +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Left and right is decided by the direction of the osm-way. Not by
> east/west/north/south.
>
>
> BTW, in Brussels we have streets with 4 official names : left/right,
> French/Dutch :-)
>
>
Rather than left/right should we not be using forward/reverse (or is it
backwards) as with sidewalk tagging?
One question I also have, if a road is reversed does forward/reverse
tagging get automatically corrected?
Phil (trigpoint)
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Steven Horner
> <steven at stevenhorner.com> wrote:
> Thank you all for the advice, although it may have confused me
> all the more with different suggestions.
>
> Personally I like Marc's suggestion of using the 2 street
> names separated by a hyphen. This allows both names to be
> rendered. Then identifying each street with left and right
> tags. How do you chose which is which if the road runs East to
> West?
>
> I'm amazed this doesn't crop up constantly, any old terraced
> streets with a road separating them would have the issue. I
> can think of about a dozen streets within 1 mile of me where
> this is the case.
>
> I will do some more investigation and look at several
> different mapped areas to see how they have been tagged,
> doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer.
>
> Regards,
> Steven
>
> On 15 May 2014 08:01, "Marc Gemis" <marc.gemis at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper
> that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing
> list. The reason is that I want to learn how other
> communities work and which problems they have and how
> they solve them.
>
>
> Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to
> have streets with two names, at least when they are on
> the border of two villages. The Belgian community
> decided to map this as follows:
> name = name1 - name2
> name:left = name1
> name:right = name2
>
>
> An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046
>
>
> What are your thoughts about this ?
>
>
> regards
>
>
> m
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53
> <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
> There are at least two major streets in the
> middle of Nottingham like this: logically the
> street does not have a name, the sides of the
> street have names:
> * North of the Council House, the S side
> is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row
> * South of the Council House, the S side
> is Poultry, the N side Cheapside
> (originally Rotten Row)
>
> These names originate as locations in the
> market square, as can be seen by other
> survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the
> square is now an open plaza the name of the
> rows of buildings have been transferred to the
> thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are
> even more complex because the shops also have
> entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as
> units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed
> shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from
> the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council &
> Austin Reed website: all in all a mess.
>
>
> Other places where this occurs include:
> Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevard, where the W end
> of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle
> Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this
> case I resolved it by tagging the footpath
> with the Caste Boulevard name. This
> discrepancy arose because the two roads were
> merged when the roundabout was built in the
> 1920s.
>
>
> I recently noticed a case where the Land
> Registry data for a small new build terrace
> had been resolved by using the name of the
> terrace as a building name. Fail. In some
> towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many
> houses were built as named terraces with
> numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor
> has been relatively recently house-numbered a
> simple inspection of addresses painted on
> rubbish bins suggests that the original
> addresses are still in use.
>
> Broadly speaking we should try and do this
> better than the OS Open Data because it does
> happen fairly frequently. name:left and
> name:right can be used even if no-one consumes
> them at present. It is useful to try and map
> addresses in such cases, and these are the one
> case where I am happy to use the
> associatedStreet relation. This at least
> enables the correct grouping of entities for
> the 'street'.
>
> Perhaps the challenge is twofold:
>
> * Persuading people that streets with
> addresses might not be named. (The
> Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a
> Procrustean solution to force
> everything to fit PAF).
> * Working out how to consume such data
> (mainly for rendering).
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
>
>
> On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann
> <richard.mann.westoxford at gmail.com> wrote:
> There's one like that in Oxford (for
> about 30 metres) - street addresses
> different on the two sides. For the
> moment it has name="St Clements
> Street", alt_name="London Place", and
> a separate footway with name="London
> Place" (plus a name:note).
>
>
> So my suggestion - draw separate
> footways, and give them names. Use
> name/alt_name on the road, or name =
> "one name / other name" if both seem
> equally valid.
>
>
> Richard
>
>
> On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM,
> Steven Horner
> <steven at stevenhorner.com> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> It's interesting and
> highlights a few problems
> local to me, some I had buried
> my head in the sand
> temporarily because I don't
> know how to fix them
> correctly. My biggest problem
> when tagging roads is what to
> name a road when either side
> of the road is a different
> street. For instance the
> analysis highlights "Myrtle
> Grove" as missing
> here: http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=415474,536751,415809,537148&referrer=area
>
>
> Myrtle grove is the South side
> of the road labeled Chestnut
> Grove and continues around to
> where the Road is labeled Elm
> Gardens. Almost all of the
> streets in the estate are like
> this, where it is very
> misleading because opposite
> sides of the road is a
> different named street. How
> should this be mapped, I have
> steered clear of fixing it
> because I couldn't find any
> guidance on how it should be
> labeled and technically is it
> even wrong. The actual
> building footprints I have
> added the correct addresses
> to.
>
>
> I use various OS products in
> my day job and interestingly
> OSM labels the streets exactly
> the same as Vectormap Local
> does, anyone looking at either
> OS or OSM maps would not be
> able to find Myrtle Grove.
> Another street where I have
> always though was labeled
> wrong in the village is
> Roddymoor Road, there is no
> street sign and I have near
> heard anyone refer to it as
> this. The street on part of
> this road is not labeled
> (buildings are) it is East
> Terrace and that's how anyone
> describing it or looking at
> signs would describe it. Again
> OS do this the same which is
> probably why OSM has it tagged
> like this.
>
>
> All of this highlights that
> while OS Locator may have a
> difference and is fantastic
> for finding potential
> problems, changing it so OS
> Locator comparisons are 100%
> may not be the correct
> solution?
>
>
> Any help appreciated and
> apologies if I should ask in a
> different list, surely this is
> an incredibly common problem
> that I have somehow missed the
> obvious solution to.
>
>
> regards,
> Steven
>
>
> On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:24
> PM, Shaun McDonald
> <shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk>
> wrote:
> ITO’s OSM Analysis has
> been updated with the
> latest OS Locator
> data. Most places have
> dropped out of the
> 100% completeness
> compared to OS
> Locator. There’s now
> 18 places which have
> less than 95%
> completeness.
>
> http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main
>
> Shaun McDonald
> Developer
> ITO World
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>
> --
> www.stevenhorner.com
> @stevenhorner
> 0191 645 2265
> stevenhorner
>
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