[Talk-GB] OSM Analysis updated with May 2014 OS Locator data

Philip Barnes phil at trigpoint.me.uk
Thu May 15 12:43:11 UTC 2014


On Thu, 2014-05-15 at 09:46 +0200, Marc Gemis wrote:
> Left and right is decided by the direction of the osm-way. Not by
> east/west/north/south.
> 
> 
> BTW, in Brussels we have streets with 4 official names : left/right,
> French/Dutch :-)
> 
> 
Rather than left/right should we not be using forward/reverse (or is it
backwards) as with sidewalk tagging?

One question I also have, if a road is reversed does forward/reverse
tagging get automatically corrected?

Phil (trigpoint)
> 
> 
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:27 AM, Steven Horner
> <steven at stevenhorner.com> wrote:
>         Thank you all for the advice, although it may have confused me
>         all the more with different suggestions.
>         
>         Personally I like Marc's suggestion of using the 2 street
>         names separated by a hyphen. This allows both names to be
>         rendered. Then identifying each street with left and right
>         tags. How do you chose which is which if the road runs East to
>         West?
>         
>         I'm amazed this doesn't crop up constantly, any old terraced
>         streets with a road separating them would have the issue. I
>         can think of about a dozen streets within 1 mile of me where
>         this is the case.
>         
>         I will do some more investigation and look at several
>         different mapped areas to see how they have been tagged,
>         doesn't sound like there is a definitive answer.
>         
>         Regards,
>         Steven
>         
>         On 15 May 2014 08:01, "Marc Gemis" <marc.gemis at gmail.com>
>         wrote:
>                 Let me first introduce myself, I'm a Belgian mapper
>                 that has been lurking for a few months on this mailing
>                 list. The reason is that I want to learn how other
>                 communities work and which problems they have and how
>                 they solve them.
>                 
>                 
>                 Now back to the topic: in Belgium it's quite common to
>                 have streets with two names, at least when they are on
>                 the border of two villages. The Belgian community
>                 decided to map this as follows:
>                 name =  name1 -  name2   
>                 name:left = name1
>                 name:right = name2
>                 
>                 
>                 An example: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/207455046
>                 
>                 
>                 What are your thoughts about this ?
>                 
>                 
>                 regards
>                 
>                 
>                 m
>                 
>                 
>                 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM, SK53
>                 <sk53.osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>                         There are at least two major streets in the
>                         middle of Nottingham like this: logically the
>                         street does not have a name, the sides of the
>                         street have names:
>                               * North of the Council House, the S side
>                                 is Smith Row, the N side is Long Row
>                               * South of the Council House, the S side
>                                 is Poultry, the N side Cheapside
>                                 (originally Rotten Row)
>                         
>                         These names originate as locations in the
>                         market square, as can be seen by other
>                         survivals such as Beastmarket Hill. Where the
>                         square is now an open plaza the name of the
>                         rows of buildings have been transferred to the
>                         thoroughfare. The addresses on Cheapside are
>                         even more complex because the shops also have
>                         entrances in Exchange Arcade and are let as
>                         units of this shopping arcade. The Austin Reed
>                         shop appears to have at least 4 addresses from
>                         the Royal Mail, OS, Nottingham council &
>                         Austin Reed website: all in all a mess.
>                         
>                         
>                         Other places where this occurs include:
>                         Sherwin Road/Castle Boulevard, where the W end
>                         of Sherwin Road has houses with Castle
>                         Boulevard addresses on the S side. In this
>                         case I resolved it by tagging the footpath
>                         with the Caste Boulevard name. This
>                         discrepancy arose because the two roads were
>                         merged when the roundabout was built in the
>                         1920s.
>                         
>                         
>                         I recently noticed a case where the Land
>                         Registry data for a small new build terrace
>                         had been resolved by using the name of the
>                         terrace as a building name. Fail. In some
>                         towns (Bangor, N. Wales, comes to mind) many
>                         houses were built as named terraces with
>                         numbers within the terrace. Although Bangor
>                         has been relatively recently house-numbered a
>                         simple inspection of addresses painted on
>                         rubbish bins suggests that the original
>                         addresses are still in use.
>                         
>                         Broadly speaking we should try and do this
>                         better than the OS Open Data because it does
>                         happen fairly frequently. name:left and
>                         name:right can be used even if no-one consumes
>                         them at present. It is useful to try and map
>                         addresses in such cases, and these are the one
>                         case where I am happy to use the
>                         associatedStreet relation. This at least
>                         enables the correct grouping of entities for
>                         the 'street'.
>                         
>                         Perhaps the challenge is twofold:
>                         
>                               * Persuading people that streets with
>                                 addresses might not be named. (The
>                                 Royal Mail seems generally to adopt a
>                                 Procrustean solution to force
>                                 everything to fit PAF).
>                               * Working out how to consume such data
>                                 (mainly for rendering).
>                         
>                         Jerry
>                         
>                         
>                         
>                         
>                         
>                         On 14 May 2014 10:07, Richard Mann
>                         <richard.mann.westoxford at gmail.com> wrote:
>                                 There's one like that in Oxford (for
>                                 about 30 metres) - street addresses
>                                 different on the two sides. For the
>                                 moment it has name="St Clements
>                                 Street", alt_name="London Place", and
>                                 a separate footway with name="London
>                                 Place" (plus a name:note). 
>                                 
>                                 
>                                 So my suggestion - draw separate
>                                 footways, and give them names. Use
>                                 name/alt_name on the road, or name =
>                                 "one name / other name" if both seem
>                                 equally valid.
>                                 
>                                 
>                                 Richard
>                                 
>                                 
>                                 On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 9:30 AM,
>                                 Steven Horner
>                                 <steven at stevenhorner.com> wrote:
>                                         Hello,
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         It's interesting and
>                                         highlights a few problems
>                                         local to me, some I had buried
>                                         my head in the sand
>                                         temporarily because I don't
>                                         know how to fix them
>                                         correctly. My biggest problem
>                                         when tagging roads is what to
>                                         name a road when either side
>                                         of the road is a different
>                                         street. For instance the
>                                         analysis highlights "Myrtle
>                                         Grove" as missing
>                                         here: http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/map_browser?bbox=415474,536751,415809,537148&referrer=area
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         Myrtle grove is the South side
>                                         of the road labeled Chestnut
>                                         Grove and continues around to
>                                         where the Road is labeled Elm
>                                         Gardens. Almost all of the
>                                         streets in the estate are like
>                                         this, where it is very
>                                         misleading because opposite
>                                         sides of the road is a
>                                         different named street. How
>                                         should this be mapped, I have
>                                         steered clear of fixing it
>                                         because I couldn't find any
>                                         guidance on how it should be
>                                         labeled and technically is it
>                                         even wrong. The actual
>                                         building footprints I have
>                                         added the correct addresses
>                                         to.
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         I use various OS products in
>                                         my day job and interestingly
>                                         OSM labels the streets exactly
>                                         the same as Vectormap Local
>                                         does, anyone looking at either
>                                         OS or OSM maps would not be
>                                         able to find Myrtle Grove.
>                                         Another street where I have
>                                         always though was labeled
>                                         wrong in the village is
>                                         Roddymoor Road, there is no
>                                         street sign and I have near
>                                         heard anyone refer to it as
>                                         this. The street on part of
>                                         this road is not labeled
>                                         (buildings are) it is East
>                                         Terrace and that's how anyone
>                                         describing it or looking at
>                                         signs would describe it. Again
>                                         OS do this the same which is
>                                         probably why OSM has it tagged
>                                         like this.
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         All of this highlights that
>                                         while OS Locator may have a
>                                         difference and is fantastic
>                                         for finding potential
>                                         problems, changing it so OS
>                                         Locator comparisons are 100%
>                                         may not be the correct
>                                         solution?
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         Any help appreciated and
>                                         apologies if I should ask in a
>                                         different list, surely this is
>                                         an incredibly common problem
>                                         that I have somehow missed the
>                                         obvious solution to.
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         regards,
>                                         Steven
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 2:24
>                                         PM, Shaun McDonald
>                                         <shaun at shaunmcdonald.me.uk>
>                                         wrote:
>                                                 ITO’s OSM Analysis has
>                                                 been updated with the
>                                                 latest OS Locator
>                                                 data. Most places have
>                                                 dropped out of the
>                                                 100% completeness
>                                                 compared to OS
>                                                 Locator. There’s now
>                                                 18 places which have
>                                                 less than 95%
>                                                 completeness.
>                                                 
>                                                 http://www.itoworld.com/product/data/osm_analysis/main
>                                                 
>                                                 Shaun McDonald
>                                                 Developer
>                                                 ITO World
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>                                         
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         
>                                         -- 
>                                          www.stevenhorner.com 
>                                          @stevenhorner
>                                          0191 645 2265 
>                                          stevenhorner
>                                         
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