[Talk-GB] Talk-GB Digest, Vol 120, Issue 39

Philip Barnes phil at trigpoint.me.uk
Tue Sep 27 12:29:30 UTC 2016


The link leads to a Liverpool Uni webmail login.

You would increase the chances of OSMers attending if it was on a weekend. 

Phil (trigpoint)

On Tue Sep 27 13:21:27 2016 GMT+0100, Margaux Meslé wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> This is to let people know that I am co-hosting a mapathon next Monday 3rd
> of October in Liverpool. The eventbrite is:
> 
>   https://mappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk
> <https://owa.liv.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=jtiJUdwOwwa7TVP60hc4-rV3K9vANxQ2uTwL4gQU-H9bDXe00ObTCA..&URL=https%3a%2f%2fmappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk>
> 
> It would be great to have some HOT and/or OSM people there.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Margaux Mesle
> 
> On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:00 PM, <talk-gb-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> 
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> > than "Re: Contents of Talk-GB digest..."
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> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >    1. Re: UK Postcodes (SK53)
> >    2. Re: UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016 (SK53)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:29:12 +0100
> > From: SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com>
> > To: Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com>
> > Cc: Talk GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcodes
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAELijW8zUW+9vrsP07nCFXz+zTdEhvC6MBvd8VuASg69e7p9EQ@
> > mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I just re-read a post
> > <http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/british-postcodes-
> > on-openstreetmap.html>
> > I wrote nearly 3 years ago. I think a lot of it holds true today, so I've
> > copied the main points here :
> >
> >
> >    1. The simplest, but not necessarily the easiest target, is to map at
> >    least one postcode in each postcode sector. This is harder than it
> > appears
> >    because obvious things to map in sparsely populated rural areas may
> > require
> >    surveys. For instance FHRS data has two B&Bs in Port Wemyss on Islay,
> > but
> >    the names are not shown on the OS Open Data StreetView. Similarly a
> > degree
> >    of caution must be exercised on farms in the Rhinns of Islay and on the
> > Oa
> >    because individual farmsteads may include two or three properties
> > (perhaps
> >    all owned by the same extended family, but nonetheless distinct.
> >
> >    2. Achieve 5% completion. This reflects a DOUBLING of current postcode
> >    data, and therefore must be regarded as ambitious. This is however, the
> >    minimum condition for breaking the back of the postcode problem. I
> > believe
> >    with a concerted effort we could achieve this in 3 months, using
> >    conventional crowd-sourcing techniques.
> >
> >    3. Achieve 10% completion. A second doubling will probably require more
> >    tool based support. The obvious targets are semi-automated matching of
> > FHRS
> >    & Land Registry data, and semi-automated identification of single
> > postcode
> >    streets.
> >
> >    4. Postcodes along major roads (A & B roads). These may require some
> >    survey work, but again because many retail outlets are along such roads
> >    there is already a decent amount of information available from FHRS.
> >
> > This was December 2013, so perhaps 5% and 10% should be nearer 10% and 20%.
> > I don't have up-to-date figures but back in May 2015 we had 73,372 full
> > well-formed postcodes for GB (not whole of UK) which is still under 5%.
> > These were located in just under 8000 postcode sectors (out of a total of
> > 12,300 or so, with another 1000 populated in the last year). FHRS data has
> > information on nearly 250k postcodes (inc NI) and 10k distinct postcode
> > sectors. All these figures are based on raw strings, i.e., not checked if
> > valid or in the right place. We still have thousands of schools mapped
> > without postcode (even some where ref_edubase was added) so this is another
> > fairly easy target.
> >
> > The big difference from 3 years ago is that we have more people interested
> > in creating tools to assist these processes: something where the 3 month
> > timescale is better than a shorter one.
> >
> > We have needed to get more address data for some, but on its own it's not a
> > very strong motivator. My hopes for making big progress with Land Registry
> > data were dashed once OpenAddresses and Owen Boswara clarified the 3rd
> > party content in the data, and similarly the OpenAddresses project finished
> > without having much in the way of additional data to offer us. (I still
> > believe that there's scope in their approach and they built some
> > interesting tools, but it was predicated on already having a decent amount
> > of usable open data). When one looks at the formidable success of BANO in
> > France there must be scope for something similar in the UK.
> >
> > I'm going to try & update my PC completion maps for the UK. I have some now
> > but I know I have lost data from filtering the gb file.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> >
> > On 26 September 2016 at 11:44, Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It looks like the next UK Quarterly Project will be based on improving
> > > address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset. Why don't
> > we
> > > have a push generally on postcodes too, not limiting it to town centres?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Brian
> > >
> > > On 26 September 2016 at 11:25, David Woolley <forums at david-woolley.me.uk
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On 26/09/16 10:19, Owen Boswarva wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> That could be done but it's not straightforward; you'll get a lot of
> > >>> overlapping postcode sectors and sectors with non-contiguous parts.
> > >>> GeoLytix produced an open dataset like that some time ago:
> > >>> http://blog.geolytix.net/tag/postcode-boundaries/
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> In my view, inferring polygons is something that should only be done in
> > >> the data consumer, as they involve creating data that cannot be
> > justified
> > >> from the input data.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> On 26 September 2016 at 09:39, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl
> > >>> <mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>     How about deriving polygons for the postcode sector level (XX9 9)
> > >>>     from the centroid point cloud, and adding the polygons to OSM? I
> > >>>     don't know how many that would give, but it would be a whole lot
> > >>>     less than 500k and still at a very usable level.
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Talk-GB mailing list
> > >> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> > >>
> > >
> > >
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:44:37 +0100
> > From: SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com>
> > To: Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com>
> > Cc: "Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org" <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016
> > Message-ID:
> >         <CAELijW-PSA055iRDmrDRF+KJzQD5AXDBta5PF6Bt+AfHRKcEWQ@
> > mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > The three obvious categories are restaurants (inc. cafes), takeaways &
> > pubs. Supermarkets is a small set. Schools we've already done. Retailers
> > (other) covers convenience stores and other small food shops. The other
> > categories are less useful (although care homes in conjunction with CQC
> > Open Data is a relatively small group which is probably undermapped).
> >
> > I'd actually avoid trying to filter on groups because in general it's much
> > easier to maintain data for rows of shops which is complete. One runs into
> > issues with nodes being slightly misplaced, name changes etc which in the
> > end make it harder to track. It was Paul William's mapping of Mansfield
> > Road in Nottingham back in 2011 which made me realise this. I'd done a bit
> > of shop mapping before a London pub meeting and found my productivity was
> > really low because bits & pieces were already there but not quite in the
> > right place.
> >
> > The selection criterion I used when I did this back in 2013 for Nottingham
> > was numbers of FHRS entries per postcode. I used QGIS to show these as
> > bubbles
> > <https://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/8559309309>and was able to create
> > a
> > GPX file from QGIS for my Garmin. The advantage was that I could knock off
> > a known number quickly: mainly I just visited a place on Sunday morning &
> > took photos, a few house numbers from the surrounding area for additional
> > context for addressing & that was it. Of course these leaves you with
> > isolated ones in funny places, but most of these I linked to when I was
> > doing something in the car so that it was easier to visit the sites
> > quickly.
> >
> > Jerry
> >
> > On 26 September 2016 at 12:40, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > A.
> > >
> > > However the FHRS database is quite big, so maybe just do a subset, say,
> > > restaurants?
> > >
> > > Dave F.
> > >
> > > On 26/09/2016 12:20, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> > >
> > > 5 days to go until the next UK Quarterly Project
> > >
> > > Without spinning off into a discussion of the merits of each
> > > suggestion....what do we need to do to agree the subject?
> > >
> > > I believe that suggestions were:
> > >
> > > A. improving address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset
> > > B. town centre blitzes
> > > C. civil parishes
> > > D. trig points
> > > E. speed limits
> > > F. a collaboration with the German Community
> > >
> > > please repeat and expand the list if I missed one.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >              Jez
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > End of Talk-GB Digest, Vol 120, Issue 39
> > ****************************************
> >
>

-- 
Sent from my Jolla


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