[Talk-GB] Talk-GB Digest, Vol 120, Issue 39

Margaux Meslé margaux.mesle at gmail.com
Tue Sep 27 12:21:27 UTC 2016


Hello,

This is to let people know that I am co-hosting a mapathon next Monday 3rd
of October in Liverpool. The eventbrite is:

  https://mappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk
<https://owa.liv.ac.uk/owa/redir.aspx?C=jtiJUdwOwwa7TVP60hc4-rV3K9vANxQ2uTwL4gQU-H9bDXe00ObTCA..&URL=https%3a%2f%2fmappingeventsota.eventbrite.co.uk>

It would be great to have some HOT and/or OSM people there.

Thanks,

Margaux Mesle

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:00 PM, <talk-gb-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: UK Postcodes (SK53)
>    2. Re: UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016 (SK53)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:29:12 +0100
> From: SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com>
> To: Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com>
> Cc: Talk GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Postcodes
> Message-ID:
>         <CAELijW8zUW+9vrsP07nCFXz+zTdEhvC6MBvd8VuASg69e7p9EQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I just re-read a post
> <http://sk53-osm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/british-postcodes-
> on-openstreetmap.html>
> I wrote nearly 3 years ago. I think a lot of it holds true today, so I've
> copied the main points here :
>
>
>    1. The simplest, but not necessarily the easiest target, is to map at
>    least one postcode in each postcode sector. This is harder than it
> appears
>    because obvious things to map in sparsely populated rural areas may
> require
>    surveys. For instance FHRS data has two B&Bs in Port Wemyss on Islay,
> but
>    the names are not shown on the OS Open Data StreetView. Similarly a
> degree
>    of caution must be exercised on farms in the Rhinns of Islay and on the
> Oa
>    because individual farmsteads may include two or three properties
> (perhaps
>    all owned by the same extended family, but nonetheless distinct.
>
>    2. Achieve 5% completion. This reflects a DOUBLING of current postcode
>    data, and therefore must be regarded as ambitious. This is however, the
>    minimum condition for breaking the back of the postcode problem. I
> believe
>    with a concerted effort we could achieve this in 3 months, using
>    conventional crowd-sourcing techniques.
>
>    3. Achieve 10% completion. A second doubling will probably require more
>    tool based support. The obvious targets are semi-automated matching of
> FHRS
>    & Land Registry data, and semi-automated identification of single
> postcode
>    streets.
>
>    4. Postcodes along major roads (A & B roads). These may require some
>    survey work, but again because many retail outlets are along such roads
>    there is already a decent amount of information available from FHRS.
>
> This was December 2013, so perhaps 5% and 10% should be nearer 10% and 20%.
> I don't have up-to-date figures but back in May 2015 we had 73,372 full
> well-formed postcodes for GB (not whole of UK) which is still under 5%.
> These were located in just under 8000 postcode sectors (out of a total of
> 12,300 or so, with another 1000 populated in the last year). FHRS data has
> information on nearly 250k postcodes (inc NI) and 10k distinct postcode
> sectors. All these figures are based on raw strings, i.e., not checked if
> valid or in the right place. We still have thousands of schools mapped
> without postcode (even some where ref_edubase was added) so this is another
> fairly easy target.
>
> The big difference from 3 years ago is that we have more people interested
> in creating tools to assist these processes: something where the 3 month
> timescale is better than a shorter one.
>
> We have needed to get more address data for some, but on its own it's not a
> very strong motivator. My hopes for making big progress with Land Registry
> data were dashed once OpenAddresses and Owen Boswara clarified the 3rd
> party content in the data, and similarly the OpenAddresses project finished
> without having much in the way of additional data to offer us. (I still
> believe that there's scope in their approach and they built some
> interesting tools, but it was predicated on already having a decent amount
> of usable open data). When one looks at the formidable success of BANO in
> France there must be scope for something similar in the UK.
>
> I'm going to try & update my PC completion maps for the UK. I have some now
> but I know I have lost data from filtering the gb file.
>
> Jerry
>
>
> On 26 September 2016 at 11:44, Brian Prangle <bprangle at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > It looks like the next UK Quarterly Project will be based on improving
> > address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset. Why don't
> we
> > have a push generally on postcodes too, not limiting it to town centres?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Brian
> >
> > On 26 September 2016 at 11:25, David Woolley <forums at david-woolley.me.uk
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 26/09/16 10:19, Owen Boswarva wrote:
> >>
> >>> That could be done but it's not straightforward; you'll get a lot of
> >>> overlapping postcode sectors and sectors with non-contiguous parts.
> >>> GeoLytix produced an open dataset like that some time ago:
> >>> http://blog.geolytix.net/tag/postcode-boundaries/
> >>>
> >>
> >> In my view, inferring polygons is something that should only be done in
> >> the data consumer, as they involve creating data that cannot be
> justified
> >> from the input data.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 26 September 2016 at 09:39, Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl
> >>> <mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>     How about deriving polygons for the postcode sector level (XX9 9)
> >>>     from the centroid point cloud, and adding the polygons to OSM? I
> >>>     don't know how many that would give, but it would be a whole lot
> >>>     less than 500k and still at a very usable level.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Talk-GB mailing list
> >> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
> >>
> >
> >
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2016 14:44:37 +0100
> From: SK53 <sk53.osm at gmail.com>
> To: Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com>
> Cc: "Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org" <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] UK Quarterly Project Oct-Dec 2016
> Message-ID:
>         <CAELijW-PSA055iRDmrDRF+KJzQD5AXDBta5PF6Bt+AfHRKcEWQ@
> mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The three obvious categories are restaurants (inc. cafes), takeaways &
> pubs. Supermarkets is a small set. Schools we've already done. Retailers
> (other) covers convenience stores and other small food shops. The other
> categories are less useful (although care homes in conjunction with CQC
> Open Data is a relatively small group which is probably undermapped).
>
> I'd actually avoid trying to filter on groups because in general it's much
> easier to maintain data for rows of shops which is complete. One runs into
> issues with nodes being slightly misplaced, name changes etc which in the
> end make it harder to track. It was Paul William's mapping of Mansfield
> Road in Nottingham back in 2011 which made me realise this. I'd done a bit
> of shop mapping before a London pub meeting and found my productivity was
> really low because bits & pieces were already there but not quite in the
> right place.
>
> The selection criterion I used when I did this back in 2013 for Nottingham
> was numbers of FHRS entries per postcode. I used QGIS to show these as
> bubbles
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/sk53_osm/8559309309>and was able to create
> a
> GPX file from QGIS for my Garmin. The advantage was that I could knock off
> a known number quickly: mainly I just visited a place on Sunday morning &
> took photos, a few house numbers from the surrounding area for additional
> context for addressing & that was it. Of course these leaves you with
> isolated ones in funny places, but most of these I linked to when I was
> doing something in the car so that it was easier to visit the sites
> quickly.
>
> Jerry
>
> On 26 September 2016 at 12:40, Dave F <davefoxfac63 at btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > A.
> >
> > However the FHRS database is quite big, so maybe just do a subset, say,
> > restaurants?
> >
> > Dave F.
> >
> > On 26/09/2016 12:20, Jez Nicholson wrote:
> >
> > 5 days to go until the next UK Quarterly Project
> >
> > Without spinning off into a discussion of the merits of each
> > suggestion....what do we need to do to agree the subject?
> >
> > I believe that suggestions were:
> >
> > A. improving address data for town centres using the food hygiene dataset
> > B. town centre blitzes
> > C. civil parishes
> > D. trig points
> > E. speed limits
> > F. a collaboration with the German Community
> >
> > please repeat and expand the list if I missed one.
> >
> > Regards,
> >              Jez
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> End of Talk-GB Digest, Vol 120, Issue 39
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