[Talk-GB] Importing Website Data

Brian Prangle bprangle at gmail.com
Thu Dec 21 13:56:33 UTC 2017

Eloquently put as ever Frederick. I share your lament about the seemingly
unattainable vision, which I happen to share. I would dearly love there to
be 10 times the number of consistently active mappers in the UK, but it
seems to be an order of magnitude more difficult ot persuade people to
maintain a map and "fill in the gaps" rather than build out a map from
scratch. I also share your  view of the increasing grip that large
corporations have on our social and political life, much to our detriment.

However we share a space with them and if they have data we can use then we
should use it: it won't be perfect but it's in the interests of
corporations for their customers and suppliers to be able to find their
locations so they'll be expending some effort to achieve a high quality (
and Tom I've seen inside enough large corporations not be naive about their
level of quality, but as Warin says some data is better than no data  as
long as we  validate it as much as we can.). Also the population at large
who might  use our map will want to find these large corporate outlets, so
we need to make the effort for them.

 I'm concerned that rate of change in the UK's High Streets with closures
of banks, pubs, chain stores,phone boxes and almagamations,takeovers,
brand-name changes will overwhelm us and degrade the reputation we have
laboured to establish. I've certainly lost the will to keep up with this
consistently.  I'm almost convinced by Frederick's argument that we
shouldn't map any of this, but just the base information of building outine
and address and building name where it is prominent, just as Ordnance
Survey does. In mapping this level of detail we seem to have made  a rod
for our own backs.



On 21 December 2017 at 10:28, Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> On 21.12.2017 10:15, Ilya Zverev wrote:
> > Frederik and Tom, please explain what has been wrong with the last
> import, and why osm_conflate + cf_audit tools used for it (conflation +
> community validation) still do not attain the required quality for OSM
> contributions?
> Your tools are certainly best on the market. Still I wish they had not
> been written at all.
> > How would you build a process for importing large batches of business
> chains?
> I am 100% against importing large batches of business chains. That data
> has no place in *my* vision of OSM; it should reside in a separate open
> database which anyone can choose to add to their local data set if and
> when needed.
> My vision of OSM is that of a grassroots movement that makes its own
> decisions about the data. We decide what the fuel station around the
> corner is called - not the marketing department of the fuel station
> chain. Corporate interests already dictate enough of our everyday lives;
> I don't want Shell to "help" me show the "right" information about their
> fuel stations.
> A lot is wrong with capitalism; large chains are one of those things.
> Small independent shops, booksellers, or pubs *already* face
> difficulties against the marketing and purchasing power of big
> corporations. Your approach will ultimately lead to every last
> large-chain pub in England being nicely mapped from afar, whereas the
> independent pub next door has to wait until a mapper comes around. You
> might say "well one pub mapped in town is better than no pub", but this
> is not my opinion; I would have wished for OpenStreetMap to be a map
> made by the people, not a map made by corporations large enough to hire
> SEO companies to manage their online presence.
> I am totally aware that "my" vision of OSM is a romantic dream and that
> ultimately, OSM is going to be just another venue for big money to
> battle it out, but please allow me to at least talk about this romantic
> dream from time to time.
> As I said, part of "growing up" is probably to toss your romantic dreams
> an accept reality for what it is. I'm totally ok with you being more
> grown up than me.
> Bye
> Frederik
> --
> Frederik Ramm  ##  eMail frederik at remote.org  ##  N49°00'09" E008°23'33"
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