[Talk-GB] Quarterly Project Summer 2017 July-Sept

Stuart Reynolds stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk
Mon Jul 10 16:57:02 UTC 2017

Hi Ed ’n’ all.

Couple of points.

1. Yes, you can download NaPTAN from data.gov<http://data.gov> under OGL. What you need to know for rail station entrances is that while the rail station data is all together with codes formed 9100<TIPLOC> (e.g. 9100LHONSEA for Leigh-on-sea), the station entrances are all maintained locally and hence have local codes. For example, Leigh-on-sea has two entrances, 1580LHONSEA0 and 1580LHONSEA1. My offer was to provide all of those (essentially static) data in one place as a set of e.g. geoJSON features.

2. Yes, you can download traveline data under OGL as well, the TNDS. The standard (TransXChange, or TXC) is complex rather than nasty - it potentially covers a lot of bases. I have perhaps mentioned in the past that I am the standards support advisor for the DfT, so I am happy to provide advice on TXC if anyone wishes to direct mail me with questions. I also have a powerpoint presentation as an introduction to the standard if people would like to know more. But there is one point I want to stress, which is that the traveline data as downloadable only list stops - you cannot get route tracks out of it. So you can plot stop to stop, but there is no indication of routing. For SE, EM and EA I have access to data outside of TNDS which has (reasonable but not 100% accurate) track data in it. My offer was also to provide this as geoJSON. For ease I was going to keep it simple - this bus does these routes - without any attempt to determine whether it was every 5 minutes or once every other week. But for relations, this ought to be sufficient. I do need someone to mount them somewhere, though, so that they can be used for comparison with OSM. Rather selfishly, I would also like to take corrections back into my data set.

Stuart Reynolds
for traveline south east & anglia

On 10 Jul 2017, at 17:20, Ed Loach <edloach at gmail.com<mailto:edloach at gmail.com>> wrote:

Ew. Bus route relations are a real time consuming pain to maintain. It is possible to get both the Naptan data and the Traveline data under OGL
(though one requires you to register for an ftp login to download it, and you need to remember to convert to WGS84 where appropriate).

The Traveline data conforms to a nasty standard which I can in some cases read using a program I’ve written to display all the route variants for a given service number. For other routes I’ve resorted to trying to parse the XML in a text editor. If I get chance I’ll see if I can get the code I wrote into github (possibly VB.Net<http://vb.net/>, possibly C# depending how long ago I wrote it). You stick the route files in a folder, browse to that folder to get a list on the left, click on one of the files to get a list of route variations top left, and see more information on a selected route variation below once selected. That shows stop references you can get from the naptan set if you can’t already find them in OSM.

I’d also recommend documenting the relations and when they were last revised. I subscribed to an email from Essex County Council which should report route changes, but I don’t think I’ve kept up to date with those. I occasionally also hunt similar news on the Suffolk website. Checking
I’ve not done the May changes I read about and haven’t even got the new X76 service in the table. I’ve only included routes that pass through the Tendring district which is where I live. If you have more active mappers nearby you might want to combine the pages (e.g. if there were a Colchester  or Ipswich mapper doing bus routes I’ve already done some which cross the district boundary).

For national express routes I just include stops as I’m not sure how fixed the routes between them are – I’ve caught for example one from London back to Clacton and when it got nearer Clacton it only stopped at the stops where drop offs had been booked, and didn’t divert for example to Jaywick but took a shorter route to Great Clacton. (That example doesn’t happen to be in that wiki page for some reason – I need to check the 484 is still running.)

As it mentions on the Tendring routes wiki page I mentioned above I had hoped to automate the validation – write a program to point at the wiki page, the latest naptan and traveline datasets, and then download each route master relation and its route member relations in turn and check whether they are still correct. This is still probably months (years?) from even being started.


From: Brian Prangle [mailto:bprangle at gmail.com]
Sent: 10 July 2017 12:52
To: Talk GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org<mailto:talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>>
Subject: [Talk-GB] Quarterly Project Summer 2017 July-Sept

Hi everyone
This will be to improve bus route relations and station entrances, by popular vote on OSMUK Loomio channel.
Bus route relations can be tricky for the uninitiated ( and even for the initiated ) so perhaps this quarterly project could do with its own wiki page, pointing to existing tutorials or developing some new ones. Any volunteers?


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