[Talk-GB] An old chestnut - looking for clarity for road names beginning "St ..."

Adam Snape adam.c.snape at gmail.com
Tue Jul 18 12:13:30 UTC 2017


Ideally nominatim etc. would recognise that St Mary's Road = St. Mary's
Road =  Saint Mary's Road but I do tag both if there is a difference in
road signs.

Church names are more problematic because they and their dedications are
signed very inconsistently. I tend to use the form St Somebody's Church as
the main name tag as this is almost always the form the name takes in
actual usage.

Regards,

Adam

On 18 Jul 2017 9:51 a.m., "Colin Smale" <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote:

> Andy, that sounds reasonable from the perspective of your mapping
> activities, but it doesn't address the question of the contents of the map.
> If someone else was at the other end of the street and saw a sign subtly
> different to yours, we would end up with an inconsistency in the map data
> and no arbitration rule to resolve it.
> //colin
>
>
> On 18 July 2017 10:15:38 CEST, Andy Robinson <ajrlists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I came up with a simple solution for road sign differences very early on
>> in my mapping. I only map the name I see first J . Generally I ignore
>> the sign at the other end of a street unless there has been a complete name
>> change.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Colin Smale [mailto:colin.smale at xs4all.nl]
>> *Sent:* 17 July 2017 18:32
>> *To:* talk-gb at openstreetmap.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] An old chestnut - looking for clarity for road
>> names beginning "St ..."
>>
>>
>>
>> Agreed, however I don't think we should be fussy about minor typographic
>> differences like apostrophes or full stops. There are often variations at
>> this level from sign to sign. If one bit is signed "St." and another bit of
>> the same road is signed "St" I think we should use a single style for the
>> whole road, taking it from the longest length. We can never determine where
>> the transition should go, and it is the same road after all, so consistency
>> is good.
>> //colin
>>
>> On 17 July 2017 18:35:07 CEST, Andy Robinson <ajrlists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> We should be applying the on the ground rule of verification. As in, if
>> looks like a duck and quacks like a duck then there is a better than
>> average chance it is a duck. So if the road sign, church sign or whatever
>> says Saint or St. etc then best to stick to that so as not to offend just
>> as many people as those who agree it’s wrong!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>>
>> PS Other deities are available
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Stuart Reynolds [mailto:stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk
>> <stuart at travelinesoutheast.org.uk>]
>> *Sent:* 17 July 2017 13:45
>> *To:* Talk GB
>> *Subject:* [Talk-GB] An old chestnut - looking for clarity for road
>> names beginning "St ..."
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>> I have read and re-read all of the guidance and local rules relating to
>> the use of abbreviations where it would be wrong to expand “St” into
>> “Saint”. It is quite clear that, for the UK, “Saint Ives” is wrong, whereas
>> “St Ives” is correct. There is also one page where I have found “St Mary’s
>> Church” is correct, but “Saint Mary’s Church” is wrong. All of this I agree
>> with.
>>
>>
>>
>> The question I want to clarify is the use of “Saint” in street names. I
>> think that is similarly clear that e.g. “St Nicholas Road” (with the full
>> expansion of “road”!) is correct, and “Saint Nicholas Road” isn’t. But
>> since the small handful that I initially came across in Great Yarmouth were
>> last edited by an experienced OSMer (Rob Whittaker), I thought that it was
>> better to check with the community than just change it.
>>
>>
>>
>> A not-so-quick Overpass query (using a map which contained the whole of
>> the UK, and hence Ireland and a bit of Belgium) tells me that there are
>> 10,324 ways which are named “Saint *” which potentially need changing if we
>> agree that “St *” is correct.
>>
>>
>>
>> By contrast there are 26,559 ways that are named “St *”, and a further
>> 7,252 that are named “St. *”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Stuart Reynolds
>>
>> for traveline south east & anglia
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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