[Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track

Edward Catmur ecatmur at googlemail.com
Sun Dec 13 10:30:21 UTC 2020


On Sun, 13 Dec 2020, 10:23 Edward Bainton, <bainton.ete at gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry, I joined this thread late and I see the initial query was, How to
> ensure tracks don't just pop up nowhere'. So driveway first then track
> doesn't solve the problem.
>
> That makes me say track all the way, as someone else has said. The
> different surfaces can be caught in the attributes.
>

If I understand correctly, the way is at once a service road, a track, a
bridleway and a driveway, and the problem is that tagging it
service=driveway makes data consumers categorise it as a driveway, which is
considered to be less important than a track or bridleway.

So why not tag it highway=service service=track driveway=yes? That should
allow data consumers to reach the correct category while preserving
information.


On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 10:08, Edward Bainton <bainton.ete at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >  https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>> >
>> > It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>> > I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>> > the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>> > means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>
>> I don't know what part of the world you're in, but by my Fenland lights,
>> I'd probably call that a track, not a driveway - certainly once it passes
>> the farm buildings (since I see a driveway as implying car-worthy access to
>> a building).
>>
>> Would that solve it? Driveway as far as the farm and then track?
>>
>> I'm going to risk blasphemy and suggest that tagging for the renderer is
>> what we all do, all day (or why map?). The problem imo is "fudging it for
>> the renderer", or "outright lying for the renderer". In this case, I'd say
>> track is a valid choice - I think even for the whole length, if by
>> "driveway" we infer something, short, tidy, and suburban.
>>
>> But I'm still a spring chicken round here, relatively speaking, and I
>> await correction by my olders.
>>
>> On Sun, 13 Dec 2020 at 09:09, Nick Whitelegg via Talk-GB <
>> talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>
>>> >Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> >cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>> >buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>
>>>   >https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>>
>>>
>>> Apologies for going off topic, but I knew that name (Noverton Farm)
>>> sounded familiar.
>>>
>>> A quick check of where it is would explain why. In 1998 I did a  long
>>> distance walk from Sussex to the Peak District, following ordinary
>>> footpaths (planned using OS maps) and went through this area, the Teme
>>> Valley. It was very nice *but*‚Äč the footpaths were in an appaling state
>>> of disrepair, I remember on several occasions that day having to scramble
>>> through dense shrub cover and attempt to negotiate barbed-wire fences. I
>>> seem to recall Noverton Farm as being the site of some particularly
>>> badly-maintained footpaths.
>>>
>>> As an aside this walk is what indirectly got me into OSM. I wanted to
>>> illustrate the walk on the internet but OS licensing did not permit it,
>>> which is how I started Freemap and then later got involved with OSM. I
>>> still haven't illustrated this walk incidentally, but...
>>>
>>> Would be interested to find out if the area has improved since..
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Martin Wynne <martin at templot.com>
>>> *Sent:* 12 December 2020 14:30
>>> *To:* talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Talk-GB] driveway-becomes-track
>>>
>>> On 12/12/2020 13:15, Andy Townsend wrote:
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Ultimately, if "something needs doing", "someone" will need to do it.
>>> > Perhaps that someone is you?
>>>
>>> Hi Andy,
>>>
>>> Yes that someone could be me. I have a server (located in Columbus,
>>> Ohio) on which I am using only a fraction of the available memory space
>>> and bandwidth. I have been thinking of making better use of it, possibly
>>> by hosting something from OSM.
>>>
>>>
>>>  >  I'd suggest setting up a copy of the
>>>  > standard map rendering as per https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>>>  > (just for Worcestershire would be fine) and start tinkering with the
>>>  > logic that decides what sort of service road is what, such as
>>>  >
>>>
>>> https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/blob/b10aef3866bacf387581b8fea4eec265010b0d14/project.mml#L475
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks. I have been looking at https://switch2osm.org/serving-tiles/
>>> but
>>> I have a lot to learn. I can do Windows programming, but on stuff for
>>> the web I'm only a dabbler. I looked at Mapnik and saw interfaces only
>>> for Python and C. If that had been Pascal, I would have dived in by now.
>>>
>>> I will have another look and see where I might start. The idea of
>>> creating my own map does appeal to me.
>>>
>>> Getting back to this case, this is the farm drive. Beyond the
>>> cattle-grid the public bridleway continues left through the farm
>>> buildings, and the surface deteriorates to the usual farm mud:
>>>
>>>   https://85a.uk/noverton_farm_1280x800.jpg
>>>
>>> It seems daft to me that the mud gets rendered but not the hardcore. If
>>> I change the "driveway" to "track" that would be the dreaded tagging for
>>> the renderer would it not? Generally in this part of the world "track"
>>> means mud, rather than a roadway suitable for all vehicles.
>>>
>>> This is where the farm drive leaves the road - this is definitely more
>>> than a "track" - note the double gates:
>>>
>>>   https://goo.gl/maps/XEs4XKs5UUHNBt8E8
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> Martin.
>>>
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