[Talk-GB] Historic England - tagging guidelines - can we agree on the English usage

[Edward Bainton]

> object Z - tagged with physical properties, it is then a member in two
relations, a relation A holding Historic England refs and a relation B
holding Cadw refs.
Would having two heritage:operator tags, or using a semicolon separator, be
a problem? I can't see why it would be, and we would then avoid adding a
relation.

eg,

name=Chirk Viaduct
man_made=bridge
heritage:operator=Historic England;Cadw
ref:GB:he=12345
ref:GB:cadw=67890

Or is the problem that the viaduct is in two jurisdictions so needs
dividing at the border? That would seem a bit too hair (or bridge ;-)
-splitting to me, as such cases must be very rare.

On Sun, 15 Aug 2021 at 12:23, Tony Shield <tonyosm9 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I haven't forgotten this - work and some thought have intervened.
>
> The agreed basis is
>
> heritage:operator=Historic England
> heritage:operator=Cadw
> heritage:operator=Historic Environment Scotland
> heritage:operator=Northern Ireland Environment Agency
>
> ref:GB:he=12345
> ref:GB:hs=LB2345
> ref:GB:cadw=34567
> ref:GB:niea=55643
>
> this also works for non statutory organisations eg CAMRA
>
> heritage:operator=CAMRA
>
> ref:GB:CAMRA=xyz
>
> I think that in the case where an object is in two or more lists e.g.
> Chirk Aqueduct then relations needs to be used, my concept is
>
> object Z - tagged with physical properties, it is then a member in two
> relations, a relation A holding Historic England refs and a relation B
> holding Cadw refs. This relation method also works for example a pub in
> CAMRA and Historic England
>
> I'll start making the wiki changes in the next day or so if there are no
> objections.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On 28/07/2021 13:55, SK53 wrote:
>
> Late to this as ever. I think Robert summarised all the important things I
> wanted to say, so just a few additions:
>
> * Use cases: I imagine the primary use cases will be related to individual
> lists, so ensuring that they are readily discoverable at the list level
> helps.
> * Using an Operator tag as effectively part of the primary key has
> problems in that it's easy to make typos or to forget what the canonical
> form of the operator name is in osm (check out Weatherspoons, for instance).
> * Other heritage lists. There are a considerable number of perfectly
> valuable non-statutory heritage lists. Off the top of my head those of
> Camra (Heritage Pubs), 20th Century Society (active in achieving the recent
> listing of Dunelm House), local civic societies, railway heritage groups
> <http://www.rhrp.org.uk/surveystatus.htm>, and local authorities (which
> may retain lists which will be considered for planning purposes).
> * List ownership changes, as mentioned. The earliest mention of UK listed
> status I'm familiar with is in volumes of the Pevsner series abbreviated as
> MHLG, and even in the history of OSM we've seen English Heritage transform
> to Heritage England, and similar changes in many natural heritage bodies.
>
> I think including a country code in the key is probably useful to provide
> context & avoid potential collisions in use of initials.
>
> Jerry
>
> On Sat, 24 Jul 2021 at 12:08, Mark Goodge <mark at good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 24/07/2021 00:15, Robert Whittaker (OSM lists) wrote:
>> >
>> > There's also the potential for more than one organisation to assign a
>> > heritage reference number to the same object. In addition to a
>> > national body, there may be local or international bodies that
>> > catalogue heritage assets. It's also possible that some assets that
>> > lie near or across national boundaries will be catalogued by more than
>> > one national body.
>>
>> There certainly are cross-border structures that are listed by more than
>> one heritage authority. Chirk aqueduct and Chirk viaduct, for example,
>> are both listed by both Historic England and Cadw.
>>
>>
>> https://britishlistedbuildings.co.uk/listed-buildings-map?loc=18,52.9280178,-3.0621707
>>
>> Mark
>>
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