[Talk-GB] Traditional Counties and Vice Counties

Andy Townsend ajt1047 at gmail.com
Thu Jan 7 23:14:56 UTC 2021


I'm just writing this just as a "for info" in case anyone is interested, 
not as a "someone must fix this now!" kind of thing.

I recently noticed a few problems with National Parks and AONBs in the 
UK and patched them up (see 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/SomeoneElse/diary/395232 ).  It then 
occurred to me that there may be similar issues with other 
less-often-visualised areas like traditional and ceremonial counties, so 
I used the same method as in that diary entry to check those.  The same 
ceremonial counties are found both via Overpass and as polygons in a 
rendering database, so there are no problems there.  Traditional 
counties were a different issue though - I had to patch up a couple of 
minor problems, but the following issues remain:

Brecknock
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8743576
A never-completed "boundary=traditional"

Denbighshire
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8748215
Another never-completed "boundary=traditional".  However, there also is:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/363513
"boundary=historic_county"

Flintshire
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8766027
Another never-completed "boundary=traditional".  However, there also is:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/363512
"boundary=historic_county"

Monmouthshire
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8510619
Another never-completed "boundary=traditional".  However, there also is:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/358021
which is the modern admin_level=6 area with that name - I've no idea 
whether it matches the old traditional area.

Montgomeryshire
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8748104
Another never-completed "boundary=traditional".
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/327867517
is a boundary way, which is a member of:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2699713
(ceremonial Powys)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/134324
(admin Powys)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/298880
("VC47 Montgomeryshire")

Radnorshire
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/8743599
Another never-completed "boundary=traditional".  However, there also is:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/359950
is "VC43 Radnorshire" - but I've no idea whether it matches the old 
traditional area.

Also missing are the rest of the Welsh ones, any Scottish or Irish ones, 
and the Ridings of Yorkshire, though the Parts of Lincolnshire have been 
mapped: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/128s .

As for Vice Counties (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vice-county for 
what they actually are - I'd never heard of them pre-OSM), apart from a 
minor patch to Pembrokeshire, the UK ones that were present were mostly 
OK (many are missing).  The exception is "vice county 67 South 
Northumberland":

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2391798
It appears to be oddly named and, like the Welsh trad counties present; 
incomplete.

Best Regards,

Andy





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