[Talk-GB] difference between bicycle and MTB cycle routes

[Simon Still]

I think this is a big issue with fairly large sections of Sustrans ’National Cycle Network’ - I ride a few sections around Guildford throughout the year on my mountain bike and there are a few that have roots / root steps, that are muddy and slippery in winter and others that are soft sand in summer.  

Personally the really useful distinctions are 
- suitable for all bikes in all weathers (which is the target that National cycle network *should* require for Sustrans classification).  

That includes a Brompton, a thin tyres ‘road’ bike, or a dutch style city bike. 

- ‘off road route’ where some bikes will have difficulty.  







> On 15 Jun 2021, at 13:11, Chris Hodges <chris at c-hodges.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> This is really tricky TBH; there's a big grey area.  My road bike is a fairly rugged tourer, and I'd take it on KAW, in summer at least.  Some of my friends have done it on similar machines. It would be heavy going but that's acceptable.  Cycling UK have a helpful page on bike suitability at https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/what-bike-best-king-alfreds-way-and-other-questions <https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/what-bike-best-king-alfreds-way-and-other-questions> but that's helpful for the rider, not the mapper
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the other stretches of NCN are pretty rough for a (skinny-tyred) road bike, like 45 from Ironbridge to Bridgnorth (flat but boneshaking, and with a hilly road alternative) and some towpath routes with steep gravel descents near bridges where grip becomes a limiting factor.
> 
> 
> 
> In an ideal world the tracktype and surface tags would help end users, but they're rarely picked up.
> 
> 
> 
> I pretty much agree with your opinion.  I'd say most but not "almost all" bikes could do KAW; but that would include a lot of rugged hybrids that never leave the city. I suspect you and I could ride it within a few days and come up with a different answer - or possibly even ride it together and not agree!
> 
> 
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 15/06/2021 12:38, Jon Pennycook wrote:
>> Hello.
>> 
>> Is there a clear differentiator between what should be tagged as route=bicycle/network=rcn and route=mtb/network=rcn?  In particular: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12665990 <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12665990> (King Alfred's Way), currently tagged as route=bicycle/network=rcn.  From the description, it's intended for "gravel or cross-country bikes."
>> That particular relation is also tagged ref=NB, implying it's part of the National Byway (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Byway <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Byway>), but the Wikipedia page for the National Byway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Byway <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Byway>) has "It runs along quiet roads, rather than a mixture of roads and tracks like the National Cycle Network, making it more appropriate for road bikes." which doesn't fit with the route of the King Alfred's Way.
>> 
>> In my opinion, unless there's a clear definition of the difference, a route=bicycle relation should be suitable for almost all bikes, leaving MTB for routes requiring off-road bikes.  I certainly wouldn't take a road bike on a "gravel or cross-country" route!
>> 
>> Jon
>> 
>> 
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