[Talk-GB] difference between bicycle and MTB cycle routes

[Chris Hodges]

There's a lot of debate in one of my clubs about what the Sustrans 
routes are actually for, as many aren't suitable for practical active 
travel (preferring a long muddy off-road route to a short one on 
reasonable roads) while others are of limited use to serious road 
cyclists (too rough) or leisure/family cycling (too far from anywhere 
much). Of course they shouldn't get all the blame; they're often at the 
mercy of local authorities


That doesn't help much with mapping of course.  Unfortunately neither 
does the rate of degradation of many unpaved routes, whether seasonal or 
permanent.  I see a middle ground between your two, or perhaps a split 
of the "off-road route": somewhere you could happily take the kids on 
hybrids in summer (when most casual riding takes place), but that turns 
into a mudbath for an MTB in the winter (when only hardy riders are 
out).  Mapping that to serve both user groups may actually be 
impossible, or require more detail than can reasonably be recorded and 
presented


As far as some bikes having difficulty, it's also the rider.  I have 
friends who are willing to ride stretches of pretty rough tracks on 25mm 
tyres and fixed gears (e.g. the byways around Stonehenge last weekend), 
while others complain about much easier gravel on slightly bigger 
tyres;  my own ability to deal with rough stuff on the tourer improves 
the more mountain biking I do.



On 16/06/2021 15:43, Simon Still wrote:
> I think this is a big issue with fairly large sections of Sustrans 
> ’National Cycle Network’ - I ride a few sections around Guildford 
> throughout the year on my mountain bike and there are a few that have 
> roots / root steps, that are muddy and slippery in winter and others 
> that are soft sand in summer.
>
> Personally the really useful distinctions are
> - suitable for all bikes in all weathers (which is the target that 
> National cycle network *should* require for Sustrans classification).
>
> That includes a Brompton, a thin tyres ‘road’ bike, or a dutch style 
> city bike.
>
> - ‘off road route’ where some bikes will have difficulty.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On 15 Jun 2021, at 13:11, Chris Hodges <chris at c-hodges.co.uk 
>> <mailto:chris at c-hodges.co.uk>> wrote:
>>
>> This is really tricky TBH; there's a big grey area.  My road bike is 
>> a fairly rugged tourer, and I'd take it on KAW, in summer at least.  
>> Some of my friends have done it on similar machines. It would be 
>> heavy going but that's acceptable.  Cycling UK have a helpful page on 
>> bike suitability at 
>> https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/what-bike-best-king-alfreds-way-and-other-questions 
>> but that's helpful for the rider, not the mapper
>>
>>
>> Some of the other stretches of NCN are pretty rough for a 
>> (skinny-tyred) road bike, like 45 from Ironbridge to Bridgnorth (flat 
>> but boneshaking, and with a hilly road alternative) and some towpath 
>> routes with steep gravel descents near bridges where grip becomes a 
>> limiting factor.
>>
>>
>> In an ideal world the tracktype and surface tags would help end 
>> users, but they're rarely picked up.
>>
>>
>> I pretty much agree with your opinion.  I'd say most but not "almost 
>> all" bikes could do KAW; but that would include a lot of rugged 
>> hybrids that never leave the city. I suspect you and I could ride it 
>> within a few days and come up with a different answer - or possibly 
>> even ride it together and not agree!
>>
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> On 15/06/2021 12:38, Jon Pennycook wrote:
>>> Hello.
>>>
>>> Is there a clear differentiator between what should be tagged as 
>>> route=bicycle/network=rcn and route=mtb/network=rcn?  In particular: 
>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12665990 
>>> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12665990> (King Alfred's 
>>> Way), currently tagged as route=bicycle/network=rcn.  From the 
>>> description, it's intended for "gravel or cross-country bikes."
>>> That particular relation is also tagged ref=NB, implying it's part 
>>> of the National Byway 
>>> (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Byway 
>>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/National_Byway>), but the 
>>> Wikipedia page for the National Byway 
>>> (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Byway 
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_National_Byway>) has "It runs 
>>> along quiet roads, rather than a mixture of roads and tracks like 
>>> the National Cycle Network, making it more appropriate for road 
>>> bikes." which doesn't fit with the route of the King Alfred's Way.
>>>
>>> In my opinion, unless there's a clear definition of the difference, 
>>> a route=bicycle relation should be suitable for almost all 
>>> bikes, leaving MTB for routes requiring off-road bikes.  I certainly 
>>> wouldn't take a road bike on a "gravel or cross-country" route!
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-GB mailing list
>>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-GB mailing list
>> Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org>
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20210616/f78a0ed5/attachment-0001.htm>