[Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation

Fri Jan 6 10:30:17 UTC 2023

Here's my changeset comment, along with an explanation of the circumstances
that may have contributed (I realigned roads and buildings with the
Cadastral layer a few days earlier and wonder if the CID import is working
on cached data?)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130291657

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:25, Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I've also commented on a changeset that merged speedhumps into building
> outlines and introduced kinks in roads. See this one, for example:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130253893#map=15/51.4972/-0.2896
> (I actually put the comment on a different nearby TfL CID changeset
> accidentally, but then linked to this one in a comment)
>
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:11, Ken Kilfedder <spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Could I please appeal for the TFL Cycle Infrastructure edits to be paused
>> or halted?   There have been some problems in the Beckon / Plaistow area,
>> with duplicated or misplaced speed bumps.  I've fixed a few by hand, but it
>> would be best if those responsible had another look at their process.
>>
>> See this node for example -
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10282561565  .   The streets in the
>> area are now all very zig-zagged, and this is incorrect.
>>
>> Zoom in here to see the general pattern -
>> https://osmcha.org/changesets/130428777/
>>
>>
>> ---
>> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
>> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk
>>
>> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022, at 5:48 PM, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB wrote:
>> > Steven - sorry!
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 5:43 PM
>> > To: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>
>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID)
>> conflation
>> >
>> > Hi Stephen - Thank you for the encouragement and input
>> >
>> > Very much take your point about the size of the humps changeset needing
>> > to be manageable. It feels like there's a balance we need to find with
>> > the size of each changeset vs the number assets we're aiming to bring
>> > in - around 26k humps. The position we reached was to restrict each
>> > changeset to a max of 350 and kept in a fairly tightly constrained
>> > zone. It sounds like reducing this max size is advisable.
>> >
>> > You'll now see that the humps changeset has been reverted. Another user
>> > (BCNorwich - thank you!) pointed out our method had caused duplication
>> > in instances where we have attempted to revise tags on existing assets,
>> > so we've reverted this changeset entirely to avoid disruption.
>> >
>> > We'll regroup quickly to revise this method and post again to here and
>> > the Wiki tomorrow.
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> > Aidan
>> >
>> > From: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>
>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 10:59 PM
>> > To: Aidan Mcinerney <Aidan.Mcinerney at ghd.com>
>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID)
>> conflation
>> >
>> >
>> > You don't often get email from steven.hirschorn at gmail.com. Learn why
>> > this is important
>> >
>> > Hi Aidan,
>> >
>> > Thanks for your efforts, I think it'll be a great addition. I've looked
>> > at a sample of the bike parking and haven't found any issues - neither
>> > false positives or inaccurate positions. I didn't look for any modified
>> > existing nodes. I've noticed that it isn't exhaustive (the first few
>> > nodes in the changeset were of Golden Square but there are some
>> > post_hoops missing), but doesn't claim to be.
>> >
>> > With the traffic calming measures, I found an example of cushions
>> > listed as a hump - I don't know if that's a problem in the original
>> > source data, or maybe it's changed since the survey or since the aerial
>> > view on Bing was recorded? I still feel like the distinction isn't that
>> > important and that it's useful to know that there's some kind of
>> > traffic calming there even if the type is incorrect.
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fnode%2F10242246942&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XBLqHNeM9ODbIbroFx947%2BOi%2FyYzZmY6pzH2XOWCzKc%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > I'm finding the bigger changeset difficult to analyse as JOSM doesn't
>> > make it obvious what has changed, and it's too big to open in osmcha
>> > (and there's 18 pages of updates to look at via the openstreetmap.org
>> > representation!
>> >
>> > Steven
>> >
>> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 12:41, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB
>> > <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > As discussed, we have now imported two example changesets for review
>> >
>> > - 44 cycle parking assets from TfL CID inside London ward(s) St.
>> > James's,West End #tflcid
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780786&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E23%2Frw4vKSg0z7FjAQPf2jLELFrnKP62tuxw%2BVn0I80%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > - 350 traffic calming assets (humps/cushions) of TfL CID within London
>> > borough Barking and Dagenham #tflcid
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780689%23map%3D12%2F51.5530%2F0.1279&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bBw1oGo312cOGlUG%2FpJ49awq5v6HcfgPEoWuE%2BG%2BrLM%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > This is aligned to the method proposed, but we would be grateful if you
>> > are able to advise if there is anything unexpected. All being well, we
>> > would look to add a few more changesets for these two assets in 7 days.
>> >
>> > Many thanks,
>> >
>> > Aidan, Lu, Ed
>> >
>> >
>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>> > Date: Tuesday, 15 November 2022 at 11:03
>> > To: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>> > Subject: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > Following very helpful feedback earlier in the year, we are now looking
>> > to recommence efforts to complete the migration of the TfL CID to OSM
>> >
>> > In the intervening months, we have been assisted by CycleStreets in
>> > closing out identified issues with the conversion scripts -
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcyclestreets%2Ftflcid-conversion%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y4BYlkXVfxV1zna7K3CvFzJWrsi8DqCfrIFJJwRmgag%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > We have reviewed and modified the import process to avoid
>> > editing/importing using out of date info.
>> > The details of this modification for two initial assets (parking and
>> > speed bumps) are outlined here -
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database%23Modification_to_Process_%2528November_2022%2529&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mtz9dIOx7VpYm8lnxim3Xg%2F6BoL%2BHNi3TVlXLfK1b%2Bk%3D&reserved=0
>> >
>> > Hopefuly this is all clear – but please ask questions if not. Should
>> > the community consensus be to proceed with this approach, we propose
>> > importing both assets for a single ward next week, allow time (a week?)
>> > for review, before ramping up to a few more wards the following week.
>> > We’re happy to be guided by the pace that community members feel
>> > appropriate as we go.
>> >
>> > We’re very grateful to receive your questions and comments!
>> >
>> > Lu (GHD), Ed (Sweco) and Aidan (GHD)
>> >
>> >
>> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This email, including any attachments, is
>> > confidential and may be privileged. If you are not the intended
>> > recipient please notify the sender immediately, and please delete it;
>> > you should not copy it or use it for any purpose or disclose its
>> > contents to any other person. GHD and its affiliates reserve the right
>> > to monitor and modify all email communications through their networks.
>> > _____________________
>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of
>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the
>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in
>> > England and Wales.
>> > _____________________
>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of
>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the
>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in
>> > England and Wales.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> > Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-gb&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KX9hgfKwgV7M1iWptqKX94ZVGeUTlBDLyHWhZdVlSk0%3D&reserved=0
>> > _____________________
>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of
>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the
>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in
>> > England and Wales.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> > Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>> >
>> https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flists.openstreetmap.org%2Flistinfo%2Ftalk-gb&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KX9hgfKwgV7M1iWptqKX94ZVGeUTlBDLyHWhZdVlSk0%3D&reserved=0
>> > _____________________
>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of
>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the
>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge
>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559);
>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited
>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136);
>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn
>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices
>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince,
>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in
>> > England and Wales.
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Talk-GB mailing list
>> > Talk-GB at openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-gb
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/attachments/20230106/58c171fc/attachment-0001.htm>