[Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation

Ken Kilfedder spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk
Fri Jan 6 10:40:11 UTC 2023 

For completeness - I commented on this cs too, but have no response as yet.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130428687

---
https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk

On Fri, 6 Jan 2023, at 10:30 AM, Steven Hirschorn wrote:
> Here's my changeset comment, along with an explanation of the circumstances that may have contributed (I realigned roads and buildings with the Cadastral layer a few days earlier and wonder if the CID import is working on cached data?)
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130291657
> 
> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:25, Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've also commented on a changeset that merged speedhumps into building outlines and introduced kinks in roads. See this one, for example:
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130253893#map=15/51.4972/-0.2896
>> (I actually put the comment on a different nearby TfL CID changeset accidentally, but then linked to this one in a comment)
>> 
>> On Fri, 6 Jan 2023 at 10:11, Ken Kilfedder <spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Could I please appeal for the TFL Cycle Infrastructure edits to be paused or halted?   There have been some problems in the Beckon / Plaistow area, with duplicated or misplaced speed bumps.  I've fixed a few by hand, but it would be best if those responsible had another look at their process.
>>> 
>>> See this node for example - https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/10282561565  .   The streets in the area are now all very zig-zagged, and this is incorrect.
>>> 
>>> Zoom in here to see the general pattern - https://osmcha.org/changesets/130428777/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> https://hdyc.neis-one.org/?spiregrain
>>> spiregrain_osm at ksglp.org.uk
>>> 
>>> On Wed, 7 Dec 2022, at 5:48 PM, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB wrote:
>>> > Steven - sorry!
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, December 7, 2022 5:43 PM
>>> > To: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>
>>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation
>>> >
>>> > Hi Stephen - Thank you for the encouragement and input
>>> >
>>> > Very much take your point about the size of the humps changeset needing 
>>> > to be manageable. It feels like there's a balance we need to find with 
>>> > the size of each changeset vs the number assets we're aiming to bring 
>>> > in - around 26k humps. The position we reached was to restrict each 
>>> > changeset to a max of 350 and kept in a fairly tightly constrained 
>>> > zone. It sounds like reducing this max size is advisable.
>>> >
>>> > You'll now see that the humps changeset has been reverted. Another user 
>>> > (BCNorwich - thank you!) pointed out our method had caused duplication 
>>> > in instances where we have attempted to revise tags on existing assets, 
>>> > so we've reverted this changeset entirely to avoid disruption.
>>> >
>>> > We'll regroup quickly to revise this method and post again to here and 
>>> > the Wiki tomorrow.
>>> >
>>> > Many thanks,
>>> > Aidan
>>> >
>>> > From: Steven Hirschorn <steven.hirschorn at gmail.com>
>>> > Sent: Tuesday, December 6, 2022 10:59 PM
>>> > To: Aidan Mcinerney <Aidan.Mcinerney at ghd.com>
>>> > Cc: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> > Subject: Re: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > You don't often get email from steven.hirschorn at gmail.com. Learn why 
>>> > this is important
>>> >
>>> > Hi Aidan,
>>> >
>>> > Thanks for your efforts, I think it'll be a great addition. I've looked 
>>> > at a sample of the bike parking and haven't found any issues - neither 
>>> > false positives or inaccurate positions. I didn't look for any modified 
>>> > existing nodes. I've noticed that it isn't exhaustive (the first few 
>>> > nodes in the changeset were of Golden Square but there are some 
>>> > post_hoops missing), but doesn't claim to be.
>>> >
>>> > With the traffic calming measures, I found an example of cushions 
>>> > listed as a hump - I don't know if that's a problem in the original 
>>> > source data, or maybe it's changed since the survey or since the aerial 
>>> > view on Bing was recorded? I still feel like the distinction isn't that 
>>> > important and that it's useful to know that there's some kind of 
>>> > traffic calming there even if the type is incorrect.
>>> > https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fnode%2F10242246942&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=XBLqHNeM9ODbIbroFx947%2BOi%2FyYzZmY6pzH2XOWCzKc%3D&reserved=0
>>> >
>>> > I'm finding the bigger changeset difficult to analyse as JOSM doesn't 
>>> > make it obvious what has changed, and it's too big to open in osmcha 
>>> > (and there's 18 pages of updates to look at via the openstreetmap.org 
>>> > representation!
>>> >
>>> > Steven
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, 6 Dec 2022 at 12:41, Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB 
>>> > <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
>>> > Hello,
>>> >
>>> > As discussed, we have now imported two example changesets for review
>>> >
>>> > - 44 cycle parking assets from TfL CID inside London ward(s) St. 
>>> > James's,West End #tflcid
>>> > https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780786&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E23%2Frw4vKSg0z7FjAQPf2jLELFrnKP62tuxw%2BVn0I80%3D&reserved=0
>>> >
>>> > - 350 traffic calming assets (humps/cushions) of TfL CID within London 
>>> > borough Barking and Dagenham #tflcid
>>> > https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Fchangeset%2F129780689%23map%3D12%2F51.5530%2F0.1279&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=bBw1oGo312cOGlUG%2FpJ49awq5v6HcfgPEoWuE%2BG%2BrLM%3D&reserved=0
>>> >
>>> > This is aligned to the method proposed, but we would be grateful if you 
>>> > are able to advise if there is anything unexpected. All being well, we 
>>> > would look to add a few more changesets for these two assets in 7 days.
>>> >
>>> > Many thanks,
>>> >
>>> > Aidan, Lu, Ed
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From: Aidan Mcinerney via Talk-GB <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> > Date: Tuesday, 15 November 2022 at 11:03
>>> > To: talk-gb at openstreetmap.org <talk-gb at openstreetmap.org>
>>> > Subject: [Talk-GB] TfL Cycle Infrastructure Database (CID) conflation
>>> > Hello
>>> >
>>> > Following very helpful feedback earlier in the year, we are now looking 
>>> > to recommence efforts to complete the migration of the TfL CID to OSM
>>> >
>>> > In the intervening months, we have been assisted by CycleStreets in 
>>> > closing out identified issues with the conversion scripts - 
>>> > https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Fcyclestreets%2Ftflcid-conversion%2Fissues&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Y4BYlkXVfxV1zna7K3CvFzJWrsi8DqCfrIFJJwRmgag%3D&reserved=0
>>> >
>>> > We have reviewed and modified the import process to avoid 
>>> > editing/importing using out of date info.
>>> > The details of this modification for two initial assets (parking and 
>>> > speed bumps) are outlined here - 
>>> > https://aus01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwiki.openstreetmap.org%2Fwiki%2FTfL_Cycling_Infrastructure_Database%23Modification_to_Process_%2528November_2022%2529&data=05%7C01%7Caidan.mcinerney%40ghd.com%7Ce18bf02137824a1d1a0408dad87aee08%7C5e4e864c3b824180a5155c8fb718fff8%7C0%7C0%7C638060319833070384%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Mtz9dIOx7VpYm8lnxim3Xg%2F6BoL%2BHNi3TVlXLfK1b%2Bk%3D&reserved=0
>>> >
>>> > Hopefuly this is all clear – but please ask questions if not. Should 
>>> > the community consensus be to proceed with this approach, we propose 
>>> > importing both assets for a single ward next week, allow time (a week?) 
>>> > for review, before ramping up to a few more wards the following week. 
>>> > We’re happy to be guided by the pace that community members feel 
>>> > appropriate as we go.
>>> >
>>> > We’re very grateful to receive your questions and comments!
>>> >
>>> > Lu (GHD), Ed (Sweco) and Aidan (GHD)
>>> >
>>> >
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>>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices 
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>>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of 
>>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the 
>>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge 
>>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559); 
>>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited 
>>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136); 
>>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn 
>>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices 
>>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince, 
>>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in 
>>> > England and Wales.
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>>> > _____________________
>>> > This email is issued by a GHD group company. GHD is a trading name of 
>>> > the Gutteridge Haskins & Davey group of companies, which includes the 
>>> > following companies (with their respective company numbers): Gutteridge 
>>> > Haskins & Davey Limited (05528602); GHD Environment Limited (05221559); 
>>> > GHD Livigunn Limited (05661240); Movement Strategies Limited 
>>> > (04925854); Birkett Stevens Colman Partnership Limited (02585136); 
>>> > George Hutchison Associates Limited (02174512); and Livingston Gunn 
>>> > Projects Limited (02399356), all of which have their registered offices 
>>> > at: Level 1, Building 49, Thornton Science Park, Pool Lane, Ince, 
>>> > Chester, CH2 4NU, United Kingdom and all of which are registered in 
>>> > England and Wales.
>>> >
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