[Talk-GB] “No path”

[Chris Hodges]

I reckon trail visibility can be easier on scree (for example, and there seems to be some around) than grass, for similar levels of foot traffic. I'm unlikely to be up there any time soon, let alone with the right people but it looks one to do - with care including for light levels. I reckon I'd rather start the day going up it, and come back down the public footpaths. I'd also take my paper OS map though. 

With a decent map presentation the crag hazard should be obvious, path or no path. Alltrails default on desktop doesn't count as "decent" by that measure. Neither does OSM Cycle, which I use when planning hiking (for the contours). The default OSM looks pretty good as does OpenAndroMaps Elevate (on my phone). 

http://www.lakelandwalkingtales.co.uk/bishop-of-barf/ says in recent years (prior to 2020) several people have needed rescuing after getting stuck. And going up does look much easier than finding the route down in failing light. 

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On 7 Jan 2023, 16:53, at 16:53, Dudley Ibbett <dudleyibbett at hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hi
>
>The linked description of the walk is rather “dramatic”.  I must admit
>I’ll probably put it on my todo list now as is sound like an
>interesting walk so I wouldn’t want to see it removed.  Trail
>visibility can be useful but also has limitations.  Many of the
>footpaths crossing fields in the Peak District aren’t visible on the
>ground for example and you are just following a line on a gps/map or
>heading for where you think the next stile/gate is.
>
>It would seem to be an issue of understanding the limitations of the
>app that was being used and the conditions at the time.  
>
>Dudley
>
>> On 7 Jan 2023, at 16:18, Chris Hodges <chris at c-hodges.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> Alltrails is built around "community content" i.e. user-submitted
>routes.  I came across it when they bought out another site I used to
>use.  They do have some "curated routes" as well.
>> 
>> They say in the article they've updated the route, suggesting it was
>curated; certainly none of the curated routes go that way now.  They're
>clearly using OSM data for their base map.
>> 
>> Nothing on the OS map there BTW.  I've got it on paper
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> 
>>> On 07/01/2023 15:46, Dudley Ibbett wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> Just seen this article in today’s Guardian:
>https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/06/hiking-app-alltrails-changes-route-rescue-three-walkers-lake-district
>>> I’m not sure if this is relevant to the data in OSM but it does seem
>to look like a footway/path on the main map if I have correctly located
>it.   According to the article, the Mountain rescue team describe it as
>“no path” so it would seem reasonable to ensure the tagging is correct.
>Perhaps someone who has walked this route can review the tagging.
>>> The article doesn’t seem to be criticising the app but more it’s use
>and the understanding of its limitations.   I assume this means there
>may be a way across a screw slope but you should assume it might just
>be scree.  I.e. no visible path on the ground.  As such, I assume the
>app doesn’t render trail visibility for example.
>>> Dudley
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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