[Talk-GB] Brecon Beacons National Park name change

[Borbus]

Changing name:en is ridiculous. OSM is supposed to be descriptive, not
prescriptive. English speakers cannot pronounce "Bannau Brycheiniog". They
call it the Brecon Beacons. If/when there comes a time when English
speakers say "Bannau Brycheiniog" then, and only then, should name:en be
updated. That day is certainly not today. Language does not change
overnight and certainly doesn't change when some authority decides to force
foreign words into a language.

If you want to make the ground truth argument then let's change London to
name:fr=London because I doubt you'll find a sign on the ground that says
"Londres". The French language can get stuffed.

The name tag can definitely change but name:en is still Brecon Beacons, at
least for now. This is the entire point of the name:en tag.

-- Borbus

On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 4:45 PM Nathan Case <nathancase at outlook.com> wrote:

> Agreed. I suggest:
>
>
> name = Bannau Brycheiniog National Park
>
> name:cy = Parc Cenedlaethol Bannau Brycheiniog
>
> name:en = Bannau Brycheiniog National Park
>
> old_name = Brecon Beacons National Park
>
> short_name = Bannau Brycheiniog
>
> short_name:cy = Bannau Brycheiniog
>
> alt_name = The Bannau
>
>
> I think the inclusion of "Brecon Beacons" in the old_name key should mean
> the national park is still searchable by that name (e.g. in Nominatim).
>
>
> On 17/04/2023 15:51, Jez Nicholson wrote:
>
> Phil, i'd like to contest the changing of the primary 'name' attribute to
> Welsh-language. As far as I can see, the official name is still in English,
> but now uses some Welsh words.The Park Authority's press release says,
> "Brecon Beacons now officially known as Bannau Brycheiniog National Park".
>
> On Mon, Apr 17, 2023 at 3:26 PM Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 17 April 2023 13:53:33 BST, David Woolley <forums at david-woolley.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>> >On 17/04/2023 09:44, Nathan Case wrote:
>> >> It's been announced that, from today, that Brecon Beacons National
>> Park has been renamed to its Welsh version "Bannau Brycheiniog National
>> Park" only.
>>
>> >Looks to me like a politically motivated source of confusion, and sets a
>> bad precedent for places using non-Roman scripts.
>> In this case Welsh uses a Roman script.
>>
>> >Presumably the name:en is supposed to be pronounced with English not
>> Welsh phonetic rules,
>> I would pronounce it the same a I, and every other speaker of wenglish
>> (including locals in Shropshire where I now live) does when dealing with
>> Welsh place names which is just flow through them naturally.
>>
>> >otherwise there are going to be a lot of visitors mispronouncing it.
>> That is half the fun of it, when I worked in Leicester we had a Belvoir
>> Room which was constantly mispronounced by visitors. Here in Shropshire we
>> have Ercall
>>
>> >I think we need a name:en:pronunciation as well.
>> For this or all Welsh Language place names?
>> Unlike English, Welsh rules are fairly simple.
>> >
>> >What would be done if China started insisting that the capital's airport
>> was 北京 International Airport, in English?
>> That's a script problem, not language. They have already changed the
>> English name of their capital from Peking.
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>>
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