[Talk-gr] refined classification
mapper at minoa.li
Thu Dec 17 14:25:23 UTC 2015
I am a bit busy at the moment, but splitting the roads into urban and rural groups would make things awfully complicated in my opinion: what I think at the moment is that Trunk roads should be the core network that connects cities that where motorways have not yet done that: for example, the main route between the cities of Trikala and Karditsa should be trunk until the A3 motorway is complete, and then primary afterwards: the EO30 from Trikala to Arta should be just primary, rather than a confusing mixture of primary, trunk and secondary.
> i do have a problem about cities/towns where the major street has become pedestrian or semi-pedestrian and traffic goes to narrow side roads
This is why I suggested that trunk roads should bypass smaller cities (like Karditsa or Larissa) if they have a ring road.
I addressed that in Tripoli a while back (http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/37.5143/22.3834) where the EO74 comfortably bypass the town centre, but in addition to still not leaving changeset comments (see http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35863637), you appear to have changed it back to a point where we still have the isolated trunk road problem, making the area looking like a mess.
I understand the importance of taking the road condition into account but I have not seen other maps of Greece that have isolated sections of trunk roads like that: this is why I advise against tagging a section of road solely on the basis of layout: it is clear that Greece does not have much money to upgrade every bit of major road between the cities to high-speed dual carriageway, as you suggested.
Because I have copied this to talk-gr, I should reiterate my suggestions to there, of a system which is no longer solely on the basis of whether it is national or provincial, but of a much simpler and robust concept, since the provincial road system does not reflect reality:
Motorways should indeed be multi-lane dual carriageways with grade separated junctions, allowing speeds up to 130km/h.
Trunk roads should be important non-motorway roads (usually national highways) that generally connect cities (such as between Trikala and Karditsa), as well as important ring roads around such cities. However, trunk roads should bypass smaller cities (like Karditsa or Larissa) if they have a ring road. The layout does not matter as long it is in good condition (usually asphalt): it does not seem to make sense to have trunk roads in isolated places (e.g. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.2648/22.2186 <http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=14/39.2648/22.2186>), otherwise the network would be messy. I have not seen other maps with isolated major roads.
Primary roads should be all the remaining National roads (except links to military sites), as well as notable highways that connect suburbs or towns, former prefecture capitals and major points of interest (civil airports, archeological sites, seaports, border crossings). Do not worry about the layout for this as well, as long it is in good condition.
Secondary roads should indeed be minor highways that connect suburbs or towns, municipality seats and minor points of interest, but in my opinion they should represent high-quality provincial roads, regardless of layout.
Tertiary roads should indeed represent roads between every remaining unconnected village or settlement in Greece, as well as minor priority urban roads.
> also in some mountain towns and villages there are extra-narrow streets also serving through traffic, they look like living streets but i m not sure this is the best way to map
If there is a bypass like in Karditsa and Larissa, then the narrow streets could be living street or pedestrian with “access=yes”. Drivers simply passing the cities en route to another destination are not likely to be interested in battling with the maze of the city centre.
There is indeed a tag for a living street, if you are not aware of it already.
At the moment my main focus is connecting every village to the main network, but to have something like http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/37.0456/22.1144 does not make sense. At the end of the day, we should keep the network simple and straightforward, as OSM also aims to get people from A to B better than Google.
I also raise concern about the use of IRC, because it would be difficult to find a record of what and why a particular decision was made, as well as by whom. This is why we may be better of by using email, and carbon copy (cc) our discussion to talk-gr (talk-gr at openstreetmap.org). otherwise the confusion will get worse.
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