[osm-hu] Road Network Improvements in Hungary

[Bihari Kristóf]

Re coverage: As of yet, Bolt is only available in Budapest (+agglomeration)
and Debrecen (+agglomeration), so the first results will probably be from
these areas.

Re how tracks are collected: Bolt drivers are only required to have an
Android phone (almost any make and  model will do), a data subscription and
the Bolt Driver app
<https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ee.mtakso.driver> (fun fact:
even owning a car is not always necessary). The app is probably constantly
recording and transmitting the (logged in/active) driver's position to
Bolt, where this data is stored in a (hopefully) GDPR-compliant manner,
then aggregated and anonymised, then carefully processed by the Data Team.
So yeah, averaged consumer-grade GPS logs it is. (Unless some of the
drivers use F9Ps. :) )

Re automated (?) checks: as mentioned, the road structure seems pretty
complete in the two largest Hungarian cities (it's prime armchair mapping
material), but there might be room for improvement in the finer tagging and
maintaining. I am most interested in this part, it would be nice to have a
detailed description to avoid *misunderstandings* and the local community
could also help with fine-tuning the parameters.

I hope to see our questions answered before we get flooded with
automated edits. (I would hardly call 14 edits (so far) a "flood", but I'm
curious about the how&why of the older edits too:
https://osmcha.org/?aoi=381d5ba6-aeb9-4244-97d1-43ab09b7678e )

-K.

On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 6:54 PM Peter Gervai <grinapo at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 5:27 PM ITineris OSM <itineris.osm at gmx.com> wrote:
>
> > A "local mapping guidelines"-eink javarészt magyar nyelven érhetőek el.
> Ez jó lesz nekik?
>
> (Translation: our local mapping guidelines are available in Hungarian,
> would that be good enough for them?)
>
> They are here to help and they have asking the community about local
> expected behaviour.
> As kissg asked: Bolt - formerly Taxify - is a taxi company, or more
> precisely:
>
> Bolt offers vehicle for hire, micromobility, and food delivery
> services. Bolt is headquartered in Tallinn, Estonia and operates in
> over 200 cities in 40 countries in Europe, Africa, Western Asia and
> Latin America. The company has 50 million customers globally[3] and
> more than 1 million drivers use Bolt platform to offer rides.
> Bolt (then called Taxify) was founded by Markus Villig (then only 19
> years old, a high-school student) in 2013, with a vision to aggregate
> all Tallinn and Riga taxis into one platform. With €5,000 from his
> parents, who also helped him by doing customer support outside of
> their regular working hours, he hired a developer to help him launch
> the business, then called mTakso. The service was launched in August
> 2013 and in 2014 it went on to foreign shores.
> Caen Contee, Co-founder, Lime, left, and Markus Villig, Co-founder &
> CEO, Bolt, Web Summit 2018 at the Altice Arena in Lisbon, Portugal.
> In 2017, Taxify launched its services in London by acquiring a local
> taxi company with a licence to operate, but was forced by Transport
> for London to shut down its services.[13][14] The company has filed a
> new licence application with plans to reopen services in London.[15]
> (Wikipedia)
>
> Since they possibly use online tracking they have lot of tracks of
> car-ridable roads, and also they badly need good quality OSM data for
> their own purposes, I guess that is the reason that they offer
> cooperation.
>
> > Egy kicsit vakarom a fejem, Magyarország mitől került fel a harmadik
> világbeli listájukra. A mi úthálózatunk lefedettsége szerintem eléggé jónak
> mondható. Naprakészségben is ott vagyunk, ami az útépítéseket-átadásokat
> illeti. A kétszámjegyű főutakkal bezárólag 10 méteren belüli pontosságról
> tudok. Vidéken vannak teljes elcsúszott falvak, de gyanítom, arra ők sem
> járnak túl sokat. A közterület-neves projekt kapcsán szerintem a
> residential-ok is kb. teljesnek mondhatók.
>
> > (rough translation: I scratch my head a little bit about what made
> Hungary on their third world list. I think the coverage of our road network
> is pretty good. We are also up to date in terms of road construction and
> handovers. With double-digit main roads, I know the accuracy within 10
> meters. There are completely slipped villages in the countryside, but I
> suspect they don’t go too far either. In connection with the well-known
> public space project, I think that the residential areas are also approx.
> can be said to be complete. )
>
> 1. My guess is that they cooperate (or about to) in every country they
> have customers. Hungary was on their list since our beloved party
> state have kicked Uber. It's probably not about third world.
> 2. I agree that Hungary is pretty well covered in OSM and they
> probably can't really do lot of useful things, apart from possibly
> uploading tracks for small villages or smaller roads. We can listen to
> what they have, how they plan to use it, and how can we mutually
> benefit from it.
> 3. I guess the best possible contribution could be fixing changed road
> parameters, like wrong or unmarked one-ways, blocked roads, new
> pavings etc.
>
> > Az általuk leírt munkafolyamat persze elfogadható - csak kérdés, a
> gyakorlatban ez hogyan fog kinézni: a térképezőik mennyire alaposak,
> kooperatívak, vagy mennyire izomból tolják be az általuk helyesnek vélt
> módosításaikat. Igen, ez egy "disruptive" cég.
> >(translation) The workflow they describe is acceptable, of course - it's
> just a question of what it will look like in practice: how thorough,
> cooperative their mappers are, or how much muscle they push in to make the
> changes they think are correct. Yes, this is a "disruptive" company.
>
> Yes, Hungarian community is pretty firm about proper changes, but I
> wouldn't start imagining war and destruction. We shall be clear that
> if we observe problems we may ask them to suspend their updates until
> we can resolve the problems, and I am sure that's okay with them
> (otherwise we would make them banned, and reach the same conclusion
> anyway :-)).
>
> > A Wiki lapon említett Facebook-os kontakt az én világnézetemmel
> ellentétes, cserébe egészséges gyanakvással fogom rajtuk tartani a szemem.
> > (translation)The Facebook contact mentioned on the Wiki page is contrary
> to my worldview, in return I will keep an eye on them with healthy
> suspicion.
>
> I have asked them on the facebook (where they have connected us first)
> to come here and introduce themselves, and they have done just that.
> Let's assume good faith, please!
>
> > Magyarországi trackből nekem is rengeteg van ("Kié a nagyobb?"). Sajnos
> az OSM infrastruktúrája nem alkalmas rá, hogy ezeket nagyüzemileg betoljam.
> > (xlation) I also have a lot of Hungarian tracks ("Whose is bigger?").
> Unfortunately, the OSM infrastructure is not capable of pushing these on a
> large scale.
>
> I do not think that this is a race situation. They can tell us what
> they have and we can help them in selecting the useful ones. Also
> remember that they are no worse than any local _companies_ being
> present here. *wink* *wink* *nudge* *nudge*
>
> > Kóstoló kérdésem lenne hozzájuk, hogy az övék vajon utastérben levő
> mobiltelefonnal készült mérések, vagy külső, aktív antennások.
>
> > (translation) I would like to ask them whether theirs are measurements
> made with a mobile phone in the passenger compartment or external, active
> antennas.
>
> Yes, that is a good starting question!
>
>
> --
>  byte-byte,
>     grin
>
> --
> Magyar OSM Levelezőlista - openstreetmap-hungary at googlegroups.com
> leiratkozás: openstreetmap-hungary+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com
> ---
> Azért kapta ezt az üzenetet, mert feliratkozott a Google Csoportok
> szolgáltatásbeli openstreetmap-hungary csoportra.
> Az erről a csoportról és az ahhoz kapcsolódó e-mailekről való
> leiratkozáshoz küldjön egy e-amailt a(z)
> openstreetmap-hungary+unsubscribe at googlegroups.com címre.
> Ha szeretné megtekinteni ezt a beszélgetést az interneten, látogasson el
> ide:
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/openstreetmap-hungary/CAAWNVq_ur2mAo_d1G-0N-DUCv7p7ybpuvbX4G4NhM%2BX6O8jw3w%40mail.gmail.com
> .
>
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