[OSM-talk-ie] Query on tracing townlands and dealing with changed lake levels and new boundaries

Sat May 16 12:35:02 UTC 2015

Hi, I just posted this incorrectly as a private message (first time to use
this system) - reposting again here to continue (possibly labour?!) the
point.

For example, for Lough Gara
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.9469&mlon=-8.4311#map=13/53.9469/-8.4311
there are about 150 archaeological monuments around the lake with the
townland listed as 'Lough Gara' in Sligo and Roscommon that according to
the boundaries redrawn on OSM now appear in 19 different townlands, so
there is a conflict between the records of ~150 monuments in the sites and
monuments record and how the monuments appear on OSM.

Now, of course L Gara is an extreme case, but it does demonstrate the scale
of the problem across the island when dealing with 20th century drainage
works and redrawing boundaries.

The main point is - what is this project for? If it is to trace the
boundaries of the administrative boundaries, maybe the actual boundary
should be traced, as otherwise we are actually inventing new boundaries
which I don't think is our role. And, as pointed out above, the redrawing
of boundaries is creating conflicts with other datasets that people are
using.

Killian Driscoll
Banting Postdoctoral Fellow
Département d'anthropologie
Université de Montréal

umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll
www.lithicsireland.ie
ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll

On 15 May 2015 at 21:31, Patrick Matthews <mullinalaghta at gmail.com> wrote:

> ARP was/is listed for any offshore islands which were above sea level at
> high tide as far as I know. It doesn't mean that they were considered
> townlands as such (if the name appears in italics on the map, then they
> were considered to be extra-territorial.
>
> One occasional issue with the Bing imagery is where different parts of a
> lakeshore were photographed at different times, e.g. the northern part of
> Lough Ree was photographed in summer, whereas the southern part was
> obviously photographed during the winter floods, leading to an
> inconsistency in the shoreline between the two parts. In the northern part
> I followed the image while in the southern part I tried to follow the GSGS
> map.
>
> Paddy Matthews.
>
> On Fri, May 15, 2015 at 11:29 PM, Killian Driscoll <
> killiandriscoll at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Thanks - Inishfale isn't a townland on the GIS layer I have (maybe an
> error
> > with that layer?). I wasn't doubting Beggerin was a townland! Just
> looking
> > for it: I found it on my GIS layer. I can't see the orig OS maps here
> > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html for the Beggerin Island area.
> > Are
> > they available?
> >
> > Killian Driscoll
> > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow
> > Département d'anthropologie
> > Université de Montréal
> >
> > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll
> > www.lithicsireland.ie
> > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll
> >
> > On 15 May 2015 at 18:25, Donal Diamond <donal.diamond at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > You can check the online 1901 townland index (there is also a 1911
> > > supplement at same site) and see Beggerin Island is listed:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.histpop.org/ohpr/servlet/PageBrowser?path=Browse/Census%20%28by%20date%29/1901/Ireland&active=yes&mno=453&tocstate=expandnew&display=sections&display=tables&display=pagetitles&pageseq=158
> > >
> > > Inishfale/Inisfale is probably a townland as ARP and boundary is listed
> > on
> > > the map sheets - it must be an omission from the townland indexes?
> > >
> > > D
> > >
> > >
> > > D
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 May 2015 at 22:44, Killian Driscoll <killiandriscoll at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I can't see the orig OS maps here
> > > > http://maps.openstreetmap.ie/oocmaps.html
> > > > for the Beggerin Island area. Are they available?
> > > >
> > > > Killian Driscoll
> > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow
> > > > Département d'anthropologie
> > > > Université de Montréal
> > > >
> > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll
> > > > www.lithicsireland.ie
> > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll
> > > >
> > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:36, Killian Driscoll <killiandriscoll at gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I guess the point is 'Inishfale Island' was never an official
> > townland
> > > > (at
> > > > > least the name doesn't turn up on the online databases, I don't
> have
> > > > access
> > > > > to the print copy): the sites and monuments record uses 'Inisfale
> > > Island'
> > > > > as the name. Is/was Beggerin Island a townland?
> > > > >
> > > > > Killian Driscoll
> > > > > Banting Postdoctoral Fellow
> > > > > Département d'anthropologie
> > > > > Université de Montréal
> > > > >
> > > > > umontreal.academia.edu/KillianDriscoll
> > > > > www.lithicsireland.ie
> > > > > ca.linkedin.com/in/killiandriscoll
> > > > >
> > > > > On 15 May 2015 at 17:25, Donal Diamond <donal.diamond at gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> On 15 May 2015 at 20:49, Killian Driscoll <
> > killiandriscoll at gmail.com>
> > > > >> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > At the SW side of Lough Allen the pre-drainage scheme lake level
> > > > >> contained
> > > > >> > an island called Inishfale Island with the townland of
> > Derrynadooey
> > > to
> > > > >> the
> > > > >> > west. This contains a national monument RO002-028 (
> > > > >> > http://webgis.archaeology.ie/NationalMonuments/FlexViewer/)
> which
> > > is
> > > > >> > listed
> > > > >> > as townland: Inishfale Island; you can see that the map the
> > national
> > > > >> > monuments is using respects the pre-drainage shoreline townland
> > > > outline.
> > > > >> > The traced townland on the osm
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=54.0715&mlon=-8.0517#map=16/54.0715/-8.0517
> > > > >> > of Derrnadooey now subsumes Inishfale Island, so the official
> > sites
> > > > and
> > > > >> > monuments record (which was incorrect, as there is no such
> > townland
> > > as
> > > > >> > Insihfale Island) now conflicts with the townland name provided
> by
> > > > osm.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >>
> > > > >> This is resolvable  -  the island still exists as a townland.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> What you do is:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> 1) Create 'Inishfale Island' townland as normal (with way(s) as
> role
> > > > >> outer)
> > > > >> 2) add the way(s) of 'Inishfale Island' to Derrnadooey with role
> > > inner,
> > > > >> this creates a hole in Derrnadooey
> > > > >>
> > > > >> For example here's Beggerin Island which was an island before
> > > drainage
> > > > >> created the Slobs in Wexford
> > > > >>
> > > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/north-west-slob/
> > > > >> http://www.townlands.ie/wexford/shelmaliere-east/beggerin-island/
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hope this helps
> > > > >>
> > > > >> D
> > > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > > >> Talk-ie mailing list
> > > > >> Talk-ie at openstreetmap.org
> > > > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ie
> > > > >>
> > > > >
> > > > >
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