[Talk-in] Multilingual name tagging convention in India

Thu Jul 21 06:39:38 UTC 2016

Some time back, I did some quick research on how we officially recorded the
names of places in India, might be an interesting read:
https://gist.github.com/planemad/decdf608776726de1007

Related projects that could help expand language coverage in India is
attempting latin to indic language and cross indic language
transliterations:
- https://github.com/wikimedia/jquery.ime/tree/master/rules
- http://libindic.org

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 12:01 PM, Arun Ganesh <arun.planemad at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Its surprising we all agree that using the latin script as default for
> local names throughout the country is most usable. Wish we had more
> perspectives from rural users of the map, but I guess at the moment we have
> not reached there.
>
> This issue would come up again if that happens and local scripts are used
> for the default over latin, something similar is already happening in
> Bangladesh http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=11/23.1262/89.1843
>
> For now, I guess lets freeze on the latin alphabet as default for all
> urban areas of the map. To sum up:
>
> - The default `name` of a feature is that name and spelling that is
> recognized by the local public, preferably recorded in the latin script for
> data consistency throughout the country. Use a localized script only if
> there is no recognized latin spelling for the name
> - The localized spellings and scripts should be added in the corresponding
> `name:lang` tags
> - Due to complications arising over the ordering of multiple languages and
> scripts in a label, no `name` tag should contain more than one variation of
> the name, use a different tag for each variation
>
> If no major corrections, I can add it to the wiki this week and we can
> make changes there.
>
> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 3:59 PM, Arun Ganesh <arun.planemad at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Moved some old instructions for setting up a tileserver that Johnson
>> wrote to https://github.com/osm-in/tileserver
>>
>> Anyone interested in setting up a custom tileserver with Indic language
>> rendering, please feel free to expand.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 12:16 AM, Chetan H A <chetanha91 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I totally agree to follow current convention we have now. Multilingual
>>> names can't be supported in India. We have 22 official languages in India
>>> and If every language names were added with English names will clutter the
>>> map. It's good to add separately using " name:lang=* " tag.
>>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/search?q=name%3A
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Chethan
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Arun Ganesh <arun.planemad at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not having map tiles available for the various languages is definitely
>>>> a problem, which motivates one to tag in such a way just so that the local
>>>> name is visible. Efforts to create an Indic language tileserver have not
>>>> really taken off, and probably this is what we should reconsider with more
>>>> seriousness.
>>>>
>>>> Experiments so far:
>>>> - http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html
>>>> <http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html#9.99/13.9372/75.6525> which is a
>>>> little futuristic but very flexible for as many languages as possible. One
>>>> blocker is that complex text shaping to render Indic scripts correctly is
>>>> unknown when this will happen
>>>> https://github.com/osm-in/openstreetmap.in/issues/14#issuecomment-193619651
>>>> - http://mlm.jochentopf.com looks like a good experiment worth
>>>> replicating, but there are not much details on how it was done
>>>> - http://yogiks.github.io/osm-kn/map/ World Kannada map made by
>>>> Yogesh. At the moment probably the most practical approach.
>>>>
>>>> If we have a regularly updated working demo of Indic language tiles for
>>>> the major languages, this could better demonstrate the practical
>>>> application of using the name tags correctly. Anyone have other experiments
>>>> to share?
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 2:14 PM, Yogesh K S <yogesh at itforchange.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I too agree with keeping the current convention of name tags for
>>>>> multilingual names. Belgium has just two languages and in context of our
>>>>> regional languages, first mapper rule can create conflicts as Arun
>>>>> indicated previously. Perhaps we should try to improve the current state of
>>>>> multilingual names in India -
>>>>> http://taginfo.openstreetmap.in/search?q=name%3A
>>>>>
>>>>> cheers,
>>>>> yogi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 07/05/2016 06:19 PM, I Chengappa wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It would help greatly if mappers could see names in other languages on
>>>>> a rendered map. I see that the demo, for instance at
>>>>> http://openstreetmap.in/demo.html#9.99/13.9372/75.6525 is still just
>>>>> a demo.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 5 July 2016 at 07:19, Srravya C <srravya.c at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Found a little more about this topic in a discussion here
>>>>>> <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:WikiProject_India#Use_English_for_the_.22name.22_tag>.
>>>>>> We could put the details about multilingual naming for India in this
>>>>>> page <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names>. So
>>>>>> that anybody referring to this page in the future for naming convention,
>>>>>> will get an idea about existing conventions followed for India.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 5, 2016 at 8:44 AM, Thejesh GN < <i at thejeshgn.com>
>>>>>> i at thejeshgn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the existing convention works really well. Use name tag for
>>>>>>> latin script and specific language tag for that language names. I think
>>>>>>> this makes it easy to work and also divide work.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 4, 2016 11:34 PM, "Arun Ganesh" <arun.planemad at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bringing this up since there are recent edits adding multilingual
>>>>>>>> labels to the `name` tag [1][2].
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The current convention that has been followed is to use `name` for
>>>>>>>> the local name in latin script. The reasoning if I remember was two fold:
>>>>>>>> - English being one of the official languages, latin script is
>>>>>>>> widely used in cities and in public signages in smaller towns. Only in
>>>>>>>> villages it is uncommon.
>>>>>>>> - Keeping the tagging convention simple[3], that could be used
>>>>>>>> throughout the country in a standard way
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keeping just one name in each tag, we have been able to avoid
>>>>>>>> issues like the first mapper rule[4] that could cause unnecessary regional
>>>>>>>> conflicts over ordering of scripts like in Belgium (and they have just two
>>>>>>>> languages).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Since we can add the regional names in their own name:lang tag, no
>>>>>>>> data is ultimately lost, and it is upto the data consumer to choose which
>>>>>>>> language to support for the user.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Would be great to hear positives and negatives of this approach and
>>>>>>>> how it benefits the public Is it time to revise this convention to be more
>>>>>>>> regional rather than national?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40472998
>>>>>>>> [2] http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/40479683
>>>>>>>> [3]
>>>>>>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_India#Naming_in_different_scripts_and_languages
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Arun Ganesh
>>>>>>>> @planemad
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Arun Ganesh
>>>> @planemad
>>>> <http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Arun Ganesh
>> @planemad
>> <http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Arun Ganesh
> @planemad
> <http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
>

-- 
Arun Ganesh
@planemad
<http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
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