[Talk-it-piemonte] Open Data Piemonte e Torino

[Kay F. Jahnke]

On 14.11.2012 09:26, Maurizio Daniele wrote:
>
> A proposito di WMS e opendata (vedi mail sul mapping party), il 
> Piemonte tutto e la città di Torino in particolare hanno una massa 
> enorme di dati pubblicati open

It's true that these data are open in the sense that everyone can access 
them and work with them. But

> e integrabili in OSM

?? The CC-BY license (here taken from the Torino data) states clearly that:

**** begin quote

Il fruitore, in caso di riproduzione o pubblicazione di elaborazioni 
contenenti informazioni reperite sul Geoportale della Città, ha 
l'obbligo di rispettare i vincoli previsti dalla licenza, segnalando la 
proprietà dei dati riportando la seguente frase:

/"Base cartografica realizzata da [Licenziatario], integrata con 
[Livelli informativi o Servizi][data] della Città di Torino reperiti sul 
Geoportale del Comune di Torino"
/
**** end quote

To integrate/import such data into OSM, the copyright holder has to 
permit OSM to omit the direct attribution and attribute via the website. 
As far as I'm aware this permission has to be given in written form - 
there are examples where this has been achieved, for example for the 
ortophotos in the PCN layer which are a good source for aerial imagery 
of the whole of Italy. This is the permission letter:

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:ITALY_Auth_portale_cartografico_nazionale.png

I would be very happy if, for example, dati.piemonte.it would give OSM 
such a permission. I have tried to raise interest in the matter, so far 
noone has joined in - maybe I just did not talk to the right people. The 
upcoming gathering in Torino may be a good place to discuss the topic.

I asked about the issue here:

https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/12379/very-good-italian-data-discovered-help-needed-with-italian-cc-license-can-i-use-this-stuff


> perché CC0 o CC-BY [2, 3],

as far as I know, these restrictions would not apply to CCO data, of course.

> per lo meno via ricalco da WMS, ma talvolta anche in formato shp. 
> Tanto è vero che spesso il Piemonte viene indicato come "esempio 
> virtuoso" di pubblicazione dei dati.
>
> Vorrei aprire una discussione sul come coordinarsi e integrare i dati 
> con opere successive di import e magari verifica sul campo per poi 
> comunicare nella lista import l'intenzione di procedere.

One of the reasons why I made and published my GPS map of the Piemonte 
is that I wanted to show what a treasure of data is available (I'm 
talking specifically of the CTRN here), and that, for example, the 
hydrographic data available are far beyond what OSM can ever hope to 
achieve. I have made an effort to map the hydrography of the Val Grande 
National Park from a synopsis of Bing and PCN data. When I compare the 
result to the CTRN (and also when I look at my feeble efforts in the 
field) I am acutely aware that the CTRN data are far superior. It's one 
thing mapping roads with a GPS unit - mapping mountain streams in 
inaccessible terrain is quite another! I have great respect for the CTR. 
I think hydrography is beyond the normal scope of OSM and can only be 
achieved properly by importing the relevant geodata.

The main problem when integrating/importing CTRN data into OSM is the 
lack of named geometries. This means that the toponyms are just words 
fixed to points; they are not attached to the geometries. This is 
because the data were initially in a CAD system and only intended to 
reproduce the CTR. But there is, for example, a slightly less detailed 
set of hydrographic data, where the geometries are name-tagged, and this 
would be (amongst others) a perfect candidate for import:

http://www.dati.piemonte.it/catalogodati/dato/1153-reticolo-idrografico-regionale-db-prior-10k-elementi-idrici.html


>
> Particolarmente interessanti sono i dati sull'idrografia e uso del 
> terreno ma ci sono anche layer sul costruito (invero talvolta non 
> troppo precisi) e vari POI (scuole, farmacie, ospedali...). La città 
> di Torino, con il suo WMS, mette anche a disposizione dati molto 
> interessanti come numeri civici (mapparli andando in giro è un 
> lavoraccio) e altezza in piani degli edifici... ma purtroppo sono dati 
> che apparentemente non sono forniti in formato shp (magari chiedendo?)

So, yet again, you are perfectly right: these data are extremely 
interesting. But until "permission to forgoe downstream attribution and 
attribute via the web site" is obtained, even the data which are 
available as WMS layer cannot be used for OSM.

>
> Sentitevi liberi di proporre anche altri servizi dati integrabili. :-)

My proposition is therefore to try and find people in the relevant 
organizations (like, the Regione Piemonte) who are able to help OSM by 
granting the relevant permission. If this has already been achieved, I 
apologize for the noise. I'm not in a good position to help here, since 
my italian is poor and I'm not in Italy. And, of course, there has to be 
an interest from the mappers to integrate the data. Large-scale imports 
are a lot of work, and importing, for example, the hydrography from 
dati.piemonte.it would mean that the import data have to be somehow 
reconciled with the extant OSM data, incomplete as they may be.

Kay
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it-piemonte/attachments/20121114/591c6fda/attachment-0001.html>