[Talk-ko] Possible border dispute brewing?

[Andrew Errington]

Hi,

I asked someone for advice about this and indeed was told to try approaching 
the mappers directly.

I did ask a couple of mappers to stop, but it was a couple of months ago and I 
never received a reply.  Since then I have looked at the area again and seen 
more damage.  It is frustrating to me as I care a lot about the map.

I am not going to choose sides, but I think that since Dokdo is currently 
protected by Korea it should be labelled as Korean territory.  If this 
changes in the future then of course it can be re-labelled.  Naturally, 
tagging can include :ko and :ja tags simultaneously.

I have not attempted to contact any Japanese group.  Has anyone else?

Finally, just FYI there are 34 addresses on this mailing list (a couple of 
which are 'bots) and it's usually quiet.  I don't know if this represents 
all, most, some or a few of the mappers in Korea.  Also, Korean mappers speak 
Korean, so we need a volunteer translator (or several) to translate anything 
important between Korean and English.

Best wishes,

Andrew

On Thu, 23 Aug 2012 22:30:56 Mikel Maron wrote:
> Hi
>
> I was asked by the poster of this thread to act in mediation on this issue.
> I am happy to do so.
>
> The same issue has been raised to me multiple times after I visited South
> Korea in May (when I joined this list). Each time I have said the same
> thing initially, and received no further  response. The first step for
> dispute mediation in OSM is for those affected to attempt dialogue directly
> with the other mappers involved; and failing that, the other community
> involved, if it exists and is
> active. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes
>
> Has this been tried by anyone? The Japanese OSM community has a mailing
> list, and the main members are the same that are organizing this year's
> SOTM. In short, I would expect a reasonable and open response to
> communication.
>
> Thanks
> Mikel
>
>  
>
> * Mikel Maron * +14152835207 @mikel s:mikelmaron
>
> >________________________________
> > From: Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung <wesley96 at gmail.com>
> >To: "Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org" <Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org>
> >Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2012 8:07 AM
> >Subject: [Talk-ko] Possible border dispute brewing?
> >
> >
> >While I was editing the administrative border for
> > Gyeongsangbuk-do(Gyeongbuk), it came to my attention that a user named
> > kazuchi has removed Dokdo's maritime border. This was noticeable since
> > Dokdo is part of Gyeongbuk.
> >
> >My suspicion is that the user in question is a Japanese. In any case,
> > while I was doing further edits to complete the admin borders for
> > Gyeongbuk, the editor spewed out save errors. Seeing the problem might
> > not be on my end, I checked the relation.
> >
> >To my horror, the very same user decided to outright delete all relations
> > that were related to the maritime border I set up around Dokdo, and then
> > some. Here's the changeset:
> >
> >http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/12829541
> >
> >Basically, this guy had the balls to delete the relations for the admin
> > borders for the entire South Korea, as well as Gyeongbuk, Gangwon, and
> > the Dokdo itself.
> >
> >I was able to restore the data up to the previous saved point for now, but
> > some progress on Gyeongbuk has been lost.
> >
> >I fear that this may not be the end of the story, as the Japanese
> > government has sharply increased the rhetoric on the claim that
> > Dokdo(a.k.a. Takeshima) is its territory in the recent weeks as a
> > retaliation against the South Korean president visiting the island. I've
> > seen similar instances of vandalism on Wikipedia already.
> >
> >The problem has been reported to OSM's mediator, but I'm not sure if that
> > would do any good if this ever escalates.
> >
> >I realize that many of you who are doing map edits on South Korea are of
> > foreign nationality. So I can't simply ask you to just take my side, but
> > I think everyone should know what's going on. At the least, please help
> > restore data points that are supposed to be unrelated to these spats if
> > they ever get deleted like this.
> >
> >Thank you.
> >
> >- Wesley (OSM: Namuori)
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >Talk-ko mailing list
> >Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> >http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko