[Talk-ko] Talk-ko Digest, Vol 23, Issue 2- "place tag"-Gu/ city place names
Brian McLaughlin
brian.scott.mclaughlin at gmail.com
Thu Sep 6 13:07:39 BST 2012
A gu is a political division of a city or town. I think a better
translation would be district, precinct, or ward.
Shortening the English name is a great idea. The word metropolitan
doesn't mean the same as gwanyaksi.
On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 5:49 PM, <talk-ko-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. South Korea top-level admin boundary creation complete
> (Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung)
> 2. Re: South Korea top-level admin boundary creation complete
> (Andrew Errington)
> 3. Re: South Korea top-level admin boundary creation complete
> (Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 15:23:16 +0900
> From: Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung <wesley96 at gmail.com>
> To: Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [Talk-ko] South Korea top-level admin boundary creation
> complete
> Message-ID:
> <CACOrF31OsjX7kTBgCK4Rju_33L6E+qxVbVobOfVco5OsiMGDYA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> It has only been a couple of days since my last update, but the progress
> went surprisingly fast.
>
> And it is my pleasure to tell everyone that the top-level (admin_level=4,
> equivalent to "do" and "gwangyeoksi") boundaries for South Korea is now
> complete and online.
>
> I keep the list of them on my OSM Wiki page, so you can peruse them there:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Namuori
>
> I plan to fix up the boundaries for North Korea real quick and then
> reorganize the city and district labels for South Korea. The ones currently
> on OSM are not only out of date, but have lots of duplicates.
>
> The rules I'm going to apply for the labeling are simple: for the cities,
> full name will be used for Korean and the short name will be used for
> English. For example, Ulsan Metropolitan City would be ????? (Ulsan). For
> all other types of districts, full name will be used for both languages,
> with the romanized suffix separated by a hyphen in English. For example,
> Yeoksam District in Seoul would be ??? (Yeoksam-dong).
>
> For the location of the district nodes, they will be placed near the center
> of the district if no boundaries are set. "is_in" tag will be used to
> properly indicate the hierarchy. Should a boundary be set, it would be
> moved to where the town hall is, and have an admin_centre tag for the
> boundary relation. "place" and "admin_level" tags will follow the proposed
> rules I've written in the wiki:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#admin_level
> For example, the Yeoksam District would have place=town and admin_level=8.
>
> ??? ??:
> ???? ? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???????.
>
> ??? ?/? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ?????. ? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??, ??? ?? ???
> ????(?: ????? -> Ulsan), ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??, ??? ?? ??? ??????
> ???? ????? ???? ??? ?????(?: ??? -> Yeoksam-dong).
>
> ?? ??? "is_in" ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??, ?? ??? ???? "place",
> "admin_level" ??? ??? ?????.
>
> - Wesley (OSM: Namuori)
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 16:15:10 +0900
> From: Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>
> To: Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung <wesley96 at gmail.com>
> Cc: Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] South Korea top-level admin boundary creation
> complete
> Message-ID:
> <CAGZkoWT4rgoNapDfY7qdpkbCR+f4x+d_cRbt+=uEPSORsZr03w at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> Hi Wesley,
>
> Good work.
>
> I haven't checked, but have you been making the boundaries using
> relations, so that you can re-use common segments of the boundaries?
>
> I agree with your choice of admin_level for -do. I thought about this
> carefully a while ago, and I have been waiting for a chance to discuss
> it. Here are my conclusions.
>
> Admin levels:
>
> 1 N/A
> 2 National border (South Korea coastline and 38th parallel)
> 3 N/A
> 4 Province (-do), Metropolitan City (gwangyeok-si), Special City
> (Seoul) (teukbyeol-si), Special Self-governing Province (Jeju)
> (teukbyeol-jachido)
> 5 N/A
> 6 County (-gun), City (-si) or District (-gu)
> 7 N/A
> 8 Township (-myeon), Town (-eup), Neighbourhood (-dong)
> 9 N/A
> 10 Village (-ri), -tong or -ga
>
> If you agree (or rather, if there is no disagreement for anyone) I
> would be happy to edit the wiki and add an entry for Korea to the
> list.
>
> For classifying the size of places I came up with this:
> Place (defined in Wiki) Korean place (suggestion)
>
> city 100,000+ -si (including gwangyeok-si and teukbyeol-si)
>
> town 10,000 - 100,000 -myeon -eup -dong
>
> village <10,000 -ri -tong -ga
>
>
> Finally, do we need a district node if we have a district boundary?
> The district node can be calculated as a centroid of the boundary. I
> think that's what the map renderer does when it places the label for a
> region.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung
> <wesley96 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> It has only been a couple of days since my last update, but the progress
>> went surprisingly fast.
>>
>> And it is my pleasure to tell everyone that the top-level (admin_level=4,
>> equivalent to "do" and "gwangyeoksi") boundaries for South Korea is now
>> complete and online.
>>
>> I keep the list of them on my OSM Wiki page, so you can peruse them there:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Namuori
>>
>> I plan to fix up the boundaries for North Korea real quick and then
>> reorganize the city and district labels for South Korea. The ones currently
>> on OSM are not only out of date, but have lots of duplicates.
>>
>> The rules I'm going to apply for the labeling are simple: for the cities,
>> full name will be used for Korean and the short name will be used for
>> English. For example, Ulsan Metropolitan City would be ????? (Ulsan). For
>> all other types of districts, full name will be used for both languages,
>> with the romanized suffix separated by a hyphen in English. For example,
>> Yeoksam District in Seoul would be ??? (Yeoksam-dong).
>>
>> For the location of the district nodes, they will be placed near the center
>> of the district if no boundaries are set. "is_in" tag will be used to
>> properly indicate the hierarchy. Should a boundary be set, it would be moved
>> to where the town hall is, and have an admin_centre tag for the boundary
>> relation. "place" and "admin_level" tags will follow the proposed rules I've
>> written in the wiki:
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#admin_level
>> For example, the Yeoksam District would have place=town and admin_level=8.
>>
>> ??? ??:
>> ???? ? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???????.
>>
>> ??? ?/? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ?????. ? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??, ??? ?? ??? ????(?:
>> ????? -> Ulsan), ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??, ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?????
>> ???? ??? ?????(?: ??? -> Yeoksam-dong).
>>
>> ?? ??? "is_in" ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??, ?? ??? ???? "place",
>> "admin_level" ??? ??? ?????.
>>
>> - Wesley (OSM: Namuori)
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2012 17:49:39 +0900
> From: Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung <wesley96 at gmail.com>
> To: Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] South Korea top-level admin boundary creation
> complete
> Message-ID:
> <CACOrF33VXpQPPB6QiTkcARn67ibtrL-dBB4NZQKFCXcoY-SLFQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The boundaries use relations, of course. :) That's why the Japanese
> tampering incident I mentioned previously had such a big effect.
>
> The admin boundary proposal I added in OSM's Wiki several months ago (look
> under South Korea) is based on the administrative division system as
> outlined in Wikipedia here:
> http://ko.wikipedia.org/wiki/%EB%8C%80%ED%95%9C%EB%AF%BC%EA%B5%AD%EC%9D%98_%ED%96%89%EC%A0%95_%EA%B5%AC%EC%97%AD
> The English version of the article doesn't have the same table that I'm
> referencing, BTW.
>
> Basically, your proposal is nearly identical to mine, except for one thing
> - I have defined admin_level=7. This is mostly for Gu's within regular
> cities. Many cities like Yong-in has both Gu and Dong. Your proposal would
> put both the city itself and its lower Gu's on the same admin_level, which
> would not be ideal.
>
> Also, I'm considering admin_level=6 for use on the Basic Self-Governing
> Entity (BSGE, ??????), and regular city's Gu doesn't fall under this - only
> the metropolitan or special city's Gu does. So it would seem ideal to put
> them under admin_level=7, just above Dong's admin_level=8. In addition,
> cities within Special Self-Governing Province (Jeju) are not considered a
> BSGE either, so they would be put under admin_level=7, too.
>
>
> As for the "place" tag, I've implied the usage in the Wiki article, but
> upon reading your suggestion, I'm abandoning the attempt to do a 1:1
> equivalency between admin_level and place tags. Here's my revised
> suggestion:
>
> state = Do
> county = Gun
> city = Si
> town = Gu
> village = Dong, Eup, Myeon
> hamlet = Tong, Ri
>
> According to the Korean law, an area could earn city (Si) status when
> population reaches 50,000. So OSM Wiki's suggestion of 100,000+ seems to
> fit more or less.
>
> I was initially thinking about using "suburb" in the hierarchy, but the
> Wiki only defines it as a distinct section of a city or a town and present
> no clear placement. So I decided to leave that out, use town for Gu, and
> push the other smaller district down one level.
>
>
> As for district node / district boundary thing, here's what I've observed
> in the map rendering. If there's a closed district boundary, but no
> district node set as admin_centre, the region does not get labeled, at
> least as far as large regions are concerned. North Korea's Kangwon Province
> doesn't have an admin_centre node, but South Korea's Gangwon Province does,
> and only the South Korean one has that blue label on the zoomed out map.
>
> So I'm going to put an admin_centre node inside any district boundary that
> I create, just to be sure.
>
>
> To summarize my suggestions / observations:
>
> admin_level: add level 7 for Gu and non-BSGE Si
> place: use town for Gu and push others down one level
> district node in a district boundary: might be needed for label rendering
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 4:15 PM, Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi Wesley,
>>
>> Good work.
>>
>> I haven't checked, but have you been making the boundaries using
>> relations, so that you can re-use common segments of the boundaries?
>>
>> I agree with your choice of admin_level for -do. I thought about this
>> carefully a while ago, and I have been waiting for a chance to discuss
>> it. Here are my conclusions.
>>
>> Admin levels:
>>
>> 1 N/A
>> 2 National border (South Korea coastline and 38th parallel)
>> 3 N/A
>> 4 Province (-do), Metropolitan City (gwangyeok-si), Special City
>> (Seoul) (teukbyeol-si), Special Self-governing Province (Jeju)
>> (teukbyeol-jachido)
>> 5 N/A
>> 6 County (-gun), City (-si) or District (-gu)
>> 7 N/A
>> 8 Township (-myeon), Town (-eup), Neighbourhood (-dong)
>> 9 N/A
>> 10 Village (-ri), -tong or -ga
>>
>> If you agree (or rather, if there is no disagreement for anyone) I
>> would be happy to edit the wiki and add an entry for Korea to the
>> list.
>>
>> For classifying the size of places I came up with this:
>> Place (defined in Wiki) Korean place (suggestion)
>>
>> city 100,000+ -si (including gwangyeok-si and
>> teukbyeol-si)
>>
>> town 10,000 - 100,000 -myeon -eup -dong
>>
>> village <10,000 -ri -tong -ga
>>
>>
>> Finally, do we need a district node if we have a district boundary?
>> The district node can be calculated as a centroid of the boundary. I
>> think that's what the map renderer does when it places the label for a
>> region.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 3:23 PM, Wesley Woo-Duk Hwang-Chung
>> <wesley96 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > It has only been a couple of days since my last update, but the progress
>> > went surprisingly fast.
>> >
>> > And it is my pleasure to tell everyone that the top-level (admin_level=4,
>> > equivalent to "do" and "gwangyeoksi") boundaries for South Korea is now
>> > complete and online.
>> >
>> > I keep the list of them on my OSM Wiki page, so you can peruse them
>> there:
>> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Namuori
>> >
>> > I plan to fix up the boundaries for North Korea real quick and then
>> > reorganize the city and district labels for South Korea. The ones
>> currently
>> > on OSM are not only out of date, but have lots of duplicates.
>> >
>> > The rules I'm going to apply for the labeling are simple: for the cities,
>> > full name will be used for Korean and the short name will be used for
>> > English. For example, Ulsan Metropolitan City would be ????? (Ulsan). For
>> > all other types of districts, full name will be used for both languages,
>> > with the romanized suffix separated by a hyphen in English. For example,
>> > Yeoksam District in Seoul would be ??? (Yeoksam-dong).
>> >
>> > For the location of the district nodes, they will be placed near the
>> center
>> > of the district if no boundaries are set. "is_in" tag will be used to
>> > properly indicate the hierarchy. Should a boundary be set, it would be
>> moved
>> > to where the town hall is, and have an admin_centre tag for the boundary
>> > relation. "place" and "admin_level" tags will follow the proposed rules
>> I've
>> > written in the wiki:
>> >
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#admin_level
>> > For example, the Yeoksam District would have place=town and
>> admin_level=8.
>> >
>> > ??? ??:
>> > ???? ? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ?? ???????.
>> >
>> > ??? ?/? ?? ??? ??? ??? ? ?????. ? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??, ??? ?? ???
>> ????(?:
>> > ????? -> Ulsan), ??? ?? ??? ? ?? ?? ?? ??? ??, ??? ?? ??? ?????? ????
>> ?????
>> > ???? ??? ?????(?: ??? -> Yeoksam-dong).
>> >
>> > ?? ??? "is_in" ??? ???? ????? ??? ????? ??, ?? ??? ???? "place",
>> > "admin_level" ??? ??? ?????.
>> >
>> > - Wesley (OSM: Namuori)
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Talk-ko mailing list
>> > Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
>> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Wesley Hwang-Chung
> Tool-Box.info
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