[Talk-ko] Please stop using name=한글 (English) form

[Changwoo Ryu]

2014-04-27 9:07 GMT+09:00 Andrew Errington <erringtona at gmail.com>:
> On Sat, 26 Apr 2014 23:01:58 Changwoo Ryu wrote:
>> As I stated earlier, the rule of "name" tag is simple and clear. It
>> should be written as a local name [1]. The long "한글 (English)" form
>> makes the maps have more text and look more confusing.
>>
>> If you are not good enough to read Hangul names, please contribute to
>> the map internationalization [2], to make the implementations use the
>> English localized name:en tag.
>>
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names
>>
>> [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_internationalization
>>
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>
> You must be new here.
>
> The reason we have "name=한글 (English)" is historical.  In 2008 some tagging
> guidelines were published in the wiki:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ko:Map_Features
>
> These guidelines included the convention to use "name=한글 (English)".  Most
> people who started mapping Korea have been following these guidelines.  I
> think that originally they were copied from the Japanese mapping guidelines:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Multilingual_names#Japan
>
> To make things a little easier, I published this page, which clarifies the
> convention:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Naming_Convention
>
> I disagree that the maps look more confusing (and I am good enough to read
> Hangul :) ).  It's much more useful to me to see Hangul and English together,
> and apparently the Korean people agree, since you have spent millions of
> dollars on putting bilingual signs on all of the roads and houses.
> I documented that here:
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Korea_Streetsigns

I have read those wiki pages when I begin edit in 2011, And I have
followed that convention in most cases. But recently when I begin to
add names to small roads, I found the map I edited began to look
confusing with long texts.

> However, I agree that it's tedious, and we should consider dropping the
> convention.  I have learned that mappers in Japan have recently decided to do
> the same (although the wiki has not been updated everywhere to show this).
>
> Hopefully, the international mapping project will improve and users around the
> world will be able to choose a map labelled in Korean, or in English, or both.

I really hope map internationalization be improved to display local names.

I also think the same global policy for "name" is better for
implementing internationalization. With different policies, map
implementations need different naming algorithms for different areas.
Think about names of form "English (local name)" for English world
tourist map.

> Personally, I would like to follow the recommendations in reference [1]
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:name
> name=Whatever is on the street sign
> name:en=English, or Korean romanisation
> name:ko=Hangul
>
> What this really means is name=* should include Korean and English, because
> that is what is on the sign.

I don't agree on this point. It really means it should be written as
the common and official name, it does not mean literally same text,
which may have translations and abbreviated forms etc.

The English translations in signs are just for convenience. Some
Korean street signs even have Japanese and Chinese for Asian tourists.
Actually most Asian streetsigns have English translation, but just for
tourist convenience. Even some Korea Towns in US have streetsigns with
Hangul. I don't think all their "name" tags should be written with
multiple languages.

Cheers

>
> Don't forget, mappers around the world are also editing data in Korea, so
> these guidelines must be simple and clear for anyone to understand.  Also, the
> map on the OSM page is only an example.  Anyone can make a map and use any
> name tag they please.  If we were to make a Korean-map and label it with the
> name:ko=* tags then it would all be in Korean (this means you have to copy the
> Korean information from name=* to name:ko=*).
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Andrew
>
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