[Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
최규성
kyusung.choi at gmail.com
Sat Feb 25 16:22:37 UTC 2017
To Whom It May Concern,
This is an immediate response upon Paul Norman's request. The following is
the translation to local language, Korean.
*[Original]*
Hello,
In OpenStreetMap you can't copy from copyrighted maps without permission.
This includes vworld, which you did here. Continuing to copy like this
could lead to a permanent block. Unfortunately I have to remove this copied
data.
Paul Norman
For the OpenStreetMap Data Working Group
*[Translation]*
안녕하세요.
오픈스트리트맵(OpenStreetMap)에서는 저작권이 있는 지도를 여러분이 허락없이 복사하여 사용할 수는 없습니다. 이 해당 범위에는
여러분이 사용한 Vworld도 포함됩니다. 이와 같은 복사작업을 지속적으로 하게 된다면, 접속이 영구적으로 차단하게 될수도 있습니다.
안타깝지만, 저는 복사된 데이터는 삭제할 수 밖에 없다는 것을 알려 드립니다.
오픈스트리트맵 데이터 워킹 그룹을 대신하여
폴 노먼 (Paul Norman) 드림
*// End of Translation*
Additionally, I notice that there are several other emails concerning this
issue from Simon, Max and Yongmin... As I mentioned in the previous
[Talk-ko] correspondence on Feb 22, I sent out public notices of NOT to use
Vworld imagery as basemap source through social network services and my
professional networks. Other than this, I don't know how to mitigate this
situation.
In Max's email, he suspected such blogs as -
http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518
The author of this blog added a warning that digitizing Vworld to OSM may
violate government regulation which prohibits survey result-derived data
not to leave the country. And, he removed the Vworld tile map service (TMS)
URL from the blog.
As for, http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377
The author also mentions the warning, but he still keeps the TMS URL
reminding Vworld imagery should not to be traced but to be used for
backdrop comparison-purpose only.
If anyone has an idea of direct actions to take, please advise...
Best regards,
Kyu-sung Choi, EZMapping (M. +82-10-5414-4374)
2017-02-25 21:00 GMT+09:00 <talk-ko-request at openstreetmap.org>:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Simon Poole)
> 2. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Max)
> 3. Re: Questionable imagery (Max)
> 4. Another questionable source (Yongmin H.)
> 5. Re: Use of questionable imagery in Korea (Paul Norman)
>
>
> ---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------
> From: Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch>
> To: talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 13:08:02 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
> Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,
> responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report
> in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).
>
> I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor
> can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all
> prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report
> use of sources that we do not have permission to use.
>
> Simon
>
>
> Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:
> > Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.
> > https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1464#
> issuecomment-282268051
> > I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the
> > Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no
> > responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see
> > discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers
> > are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.
> > my 2ct..
> >
> >
> > On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:
> >> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:
> >>
> >> * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,
> >> please inform the Data Working Group (data at osmfoundation.org) and
> >> take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get
> >> larger, not smaller with time.
> >> * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset
> >> comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are
> >> doing nobody a favour.
> >> * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy
> >> nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits
> >> (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make
> >> sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are
> >> easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.
> >>
> >> Simon
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-ko mailing list
> > Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
>
>
>
> ---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------
> From: Max <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> To: OpenStreetMap Korea <talk-ko at openstreetmap.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:37:54 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
> Simon, off cause you are right. I was not the one finding out about the
> vworld image usage. I am not patrolling OSM, I don't even know the tools
> how to do it. I don't feel a responsibility for Korea nor do I feel I can
> speak for OSM Korea, because it doesn't really exist. I only heard about it
> here on the list and thought a issue in the ID bugreacker is a good idea.
>
> However I think this situation is a good opportunity and an experience to
> learn from. We can create the structures to make sure this can't happen
> again. Or at least raise the awareness.
>
> I have a few thoughts. Fist let me try an asessment of the situation for
> those from outside:
>
> 1. OSM in Korea is in a quite dire state. There are only very few
> contibutors, the quality of data is low, Most of it still stems from an
> import that is very old. Village POI are usually so off that it's
> impossible to know which village has which name without local knowledge.
> Junctions are imported as lone points, often with steets missing. Bridges
> too.
> The language is a mess, with "English" and Korean mixed in brakets ((and
> double brackets too)). Half-translations such as "name=새마을11교(Sae Village
> 11 Gyo)"(sic)
>
> 2. Bing Satellite imagery is not available in big parts of the country.
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=16/37.1364/128.2107
> Mapbox Satellite often only in B/W, cloudy covered or low-res
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/38.0416/128.2093
>
> 3. Commercial Map providers like Naver and Daum on the other hand are
> extremely detailed, up to date including even streetview from bicycle
> tracks and such.
>
> 4. The OSM community is very loose to say the least. I don't think anyone
> knows someone else IRL. There is the mailinglist with some months of 0
> emails. It consists largely of expats and most posts are in English.
>
> ---
>
> In this situation, now we have suddenly new users contributing a lot of
> detail http://osmcha.mapbox.com/46332326/
> But they are not reacting on changeset comments or direct messages, maybe
> because of a language barrier.
>
> Here my thoughts:
> 1. Is it somehow possible to not scare those away, now that their
> contributions will be reverted? Is there a way to say: "Thank you for your
> contribution, unfortunately we had to delete you edits because of legal
> problems from derived maps from unlicensed satellite images. But we want
> you to stay in our community"?
>
> 2. How to address the teenagers and Pokemon Go users with a lot of time
> and turn their obsession into something that is for the common good.
> (honestly that is what OSM is for me personally: Procrastination, but with
> the added bonus of doing something for mankind, compare this to playing
> candy crush.)
>
> 3. Should we embrace those kids better? Maybe having a booth at a games
> convention where pokemon users go?
>
> 4. Should OSM Korea make an effort to become some sort of organization?
> Or would that lead to more problems even? Around Daegu I noticed that a
> lot of army bases are mapped, even with their names, which are completely
> censored on any other service. South Korea government and authorities might
> not find this funny. This is a very young democracy with the army and
> secret service having a lot of power. I think i remember a story that Revi
> has made some experiences here when he was editing wikipedia.
>
> my 2 1/2 ct.
>
> m.
>
>
> On 2017년 02월 24일 13:08, Simon Poole wrote:
>
>> Just to be clear: a report to the DWG needs neither meetings, roles,
>> responsibilities or a common language (well it is likely that a report
>> in English will be easier to understand, but that is about it).
>>
>> I realize that there might be a cultural hurdle, but any OSM contributor
>> can and should, if other avenues have not worked (naturally we all
>> prefer if things can be fixed locally and need not be escalated), report
>> use of sources that we do not have permission to use.
>>
>> Simon
>>
>>
>> Am 24.02.2017 um 12:53 schrieb Max:
>>
>>> Paul Norman also has complained that nobody has contacted the DWG.
>>> https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/
>>> issues/1464#issuecomment-282268051
>>> I guess this is because there is no organizational structure in the
>>> Korean OSM community (yet). No IRL meetings, no roles, no
>>> responsiblities, maybe not even a common language. As everyone can see
>>> discussions on talk-ko happen to be mainly in English, so most mombers
>>> are "expats" me included, and I am even not any more in Korea.
>>> my 2ct..
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2017년 02월 23일 21:00, Simon Poole wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just a couple of notes on the use of the VWorld imagery:
>>>>
>>>> * when you experience use of questionable sources in a larger way,
>>>> please inform the Data Working Group (data at osmfoundation.org) and
>>>> take action without too much delay. These problems tend to get
>>>> larger, not smaller with time.
>>>> * please point out the use of problematic sources via changeset
>>>> comments to the mappers in question and point out that they are
>>>> doing nobody a favour.
>>>> * while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy
>>>> nature of this specific source we will want to redact the edits
>>>> (which removes them from history too) so likely it doesn't make
>>>> sense to revert them manually. As the changesets in question are
>>>> easy to identify this should not be a larger problem.
>>>>
>>>> Simon
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-ko mailing list
>>> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-ko mailing list
>> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>>
>>
>
> ---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------
> From: Max <abonnements at revolwear.com>
> To: OpenStreetMap Korea <talk-ko at openstreetmap.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2017 15:49:06 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Questionable imagery
> On 2017년 02월 24일 04:25, Changwoo Ryu wrote:
>
>> Questions:
>>> 1. How comes? Where is the source? Is there a Korean blog entry, Naver
>>> cafe
>>> or other site that shows people how to do it? Can we stop it at the
>>> source?
>>> Could someone search this on naver/daum? I could not find it in a quick
>>> attempt, but there must be a source.
>>>
>>
>> I suspected this:
>>
>> http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220919020518
>>
>> This 1-month old blog entry had information on adding VMS as imaginary
>> source. So I have informed the author about the situation about two
>> weeks ago, and the author has deleted the info.
>>
>
> It's still there! on the previous page:
> http://blog.naver.com/PostView.nhn?blogId=8527l&logNo=220922543377
> At least in the screenshots.
>
> M
>
>
> ---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------
> From: "Yongmin H." <lists at revi.pe.kr>
> To: talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 01:10:28 +0900
> Subject: [Talk-ko] Another questionable source
> re-sending because of my mistake on email address.
> ----
> Hello,
>
> I was discussing recent imagery issues with my friend, and he said there
> are another problematic imagery source he couldn't remember where he saw
> it (other than being OSM wiki). I did a quick search and found this
> edit[1] in **March 2012** which added a questionable source "National
> Spatial Information Portal"[2]. It was there until I removed[3] the
> section today. This source is obviously unacceptable for being
> copyrighted work of Government of Republic of Korea. Simon said about
> pointing them "it's no good" via changeset comment but I don't think
> it's useful here as the information was available since 2012, and I
> can't even assume how many changesets are based on this source.
>
> I have no idea where to start, so I'm starting by sending an email to
> talk-ko and DWG.
>
> [1]:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=
> WikiProject_Korea&diff=751180&oldid=prev
> [2]: http://www.nsdi.go.kr/?menuno=3085
> [3]:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=WikiProject_Korea&type=
> revision&diff=1433558&oldid=1430516
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Yongmin Hong
> https://wp.revi.blog
> Please note that this address is list-only address and any non-mailing
> list mails will be treated as spam.
> Please use https://encrypt.to/0x947f156f16250de39788c3c35b625da5beff197a
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>
> ---------- 전달된 메시지 ----------
> From: Paul Norman <penorman at mac.com>
> To: talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> Cc:
> Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2017 02:47:08 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Talk-ko] Use of questionable imagery in Korea
> On 2/23/2017 12:00 PM, Simon Poole wrote:
>
>> while not speaking for the DWG, I suspect that due to the touchy nature
>> of this specific source we will want to redact the edits (which removes
>> them from history too) so likely it doesn't make sense to revert them
>> manually. As the changesets in question are easy to identify this should
>> not be a larger problem.
>>
>
> Unfortunately, this is correct. It looks like it'll be 133 users and 2257
> changesets. I'm planning to leave messages in changeset discussions on
> their most recent changesets.
>
> Could someone translate this to Korean for me?
>
> Hello,
>
> In OpenStreetMap you can't copy from copyrighted maps without permission.
> This includes vworld, which you did here. Continuing to copy like this
> could lead to a permanent block. Unfortunately I have to remove this copied
> data.
>
> Paul Norman
> For the OpenStreetMap Data Working Group
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-ko mailing list
> Talk-ko at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ko
>
>
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