[talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM

[maning sambale]

Hi,

I have been discussing with rally about adding addresses to osm.  We
all know it's messy here in the Philippines but rally outlined an even
more messy situation!
I hope we can pool our minds together to come-up with a sensible
addressing format for the Philippines.

I've started a wikipage to collect some notes
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Philippine_addressing

I suggest we adopt the Karlsruhe Schema and adopt all possible tags
that fit the Philippines.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address

here's the email from rally (background rally works in courier service
so he knows this stuff very well):
==============
> housenumber : number or alphanumeric (eg 12-C, 5-A), or
> LOT/BLK/PHASE no.
> housename: for addresses on Avenues (eg. ortigas ave ext or
> manila east
> roads) that has no street number, but building names only
>
> street: sometimes blank (for sitios with no streets; of for
> subdivisions
> with no streets - using Lot/Block/Phase)
>
> state -- not applicable
> for NCR:
>
> postcode: zipcode
>
> Note: In the US,  "zipcode" combined with
> "house number" and "street name"
> are enough info for a package to be delivered.
> because their expanded zipcode makes the equivalent
> barangay, sitio, town,
> city, state becomes redundant info.
> a specific expanded ZIP points to a small specific area in
> the country. So,
> once a messenger reached that zipcode area, all he has to
> do is look for the
> street and house number. sometimes it includes APT or SPC
> (apartment  or
> Space number). no need to specify condo or name of
> townhouse (as they
> consume extra space in the database).
>
> The dream is for every filipino living in a specific area,
> to know his/her
> expanded zipcode. maybe, all he needs to do is dial his
> landline on his
> area, and the computer answers back with the correct
> zipcode; or simply ask
> the barangay tanod for their zipcode. then, there's no
> need to memorize the
> name of apartment, condo, building name, project
> subdivision. that way, typo
> error don't  matter as long as the zipcode is correct.
> according to wiki,
> Taytay Rizal is 41square Km. yet the zip code is one
> 4-digit number for the
> entire town. Now what's the use of this zipcode to a
> messenger? no use.
>
> my point is, after the tag "addr:street" we must
> go to many other sub-levels
> before going to city or town.
>
> some barangays in the philppines are just too big for one
> expanded zipcode,
> so we further divide it into sitio or big village or big
> subdivision...
> wait, it's not that easy to teach and implement.
>
> what complicates the address system is the inefficient use
> of address fields
> in paper forms: rural and city addresses need different
> forms.
>
> NCR have "districts" and barangays but don't
> have provinces, and sitios and
> puroks are not that many.
>
> RURAL AREAS have provinces and barangays, but have lots of
> sitios and
> puroks, but practically no districts (except for
> congressional districts
> which is not used on Address system) - because
> congressional district keeps
> on changing very often.
>
> since there are lots of "streetname duplication"
> in a particular town, rural
> addresses need to specify subdivision name, or sitio or
> purok name or
> neighborhood association name; else the mails get lost.
> There are no laws
> governing the "naming of streets". it's a
> free-for-all system for LGU to
> name it to any names they like.
>
> if we use all fields (1) house number or Lot/Blk/Phase, (2)
> Floor Number,
> (3) building name or Apartment name, (4) streetname, (5)
> sitio or purok, (6)
> subdivision name (or project name), (7) barangay name, (8)
> town or city
> name, (9) province, (10) regions name, (11) country name,
> (12) zip code...
> gosh there's a lot of field that will be blank or be
> filled up with a lot of
> N/A's
> because:
> 1. some don't have House number, but Lot/Blk/Phase ---
> How do you search Lot
> Block Phase? Doesn't make sense and creates logistical
> nightmare. One block
> normally covers 3-4 streets (on all sides) - not
> environment friendly - lots
> of fuel spent searching.
> 2. If Lot/Blk/Phase is used, then some don't use street
> names (especially
> for those subd given permit to sell even without naming
> their streets), then
> after a few years put names on the street and mess up the
> address database.
> 3. if they don't live in a building, then what's
> the use of Floor Number and
> building name field? (imagine the precious terabytes wasted
> on the harddrive
> trying to reserved space for these unused space on a
> typical database)
> 4. some buildings are condos, some office/residential (so
> we use "building"
> field to enter the condo name) when some would insist that
> it should be on
> the "Projects Name" --- same field reserved for
> "Subdivision Name" so which-
> which? what about a townhouse, since these are not
> "buildings" but just a
> "project". There are different impressions from
> different people, so they
> either put it on building (where they normally put condos),
> while others
> will put it on Subdivision (where they put the name of the
> project). What
> about warehouse factories with lots of building names
> inside an industrial
> subdivision? this is easy...
> 5. some subdivision such as beverly hills subd (antipolo)
> is considered "one
> whole barangay" by antipolo city; so where do we put
> it? in "barangay" or
> "subdivision" field? or both? if both, then what
> happened if we print it to
> the mailing envelope using mailmerge... we get
> "beverly hills subd, beverly
> hills subd, antipolo city --- let's you think there
> must be a typo somewhere
> (because of redundancy).
> and to think that half of beverly hills subd is also part
> of Taytay Rizal
> and is just under Barangay Dolores of Taytay. (there's
> boundary dispute)
> 6. some use sitio as another name for purok (in our town,
> that is the case).
> Sitio is the name, while that name has an assigned
> "Purok #". Which one
> should we put on the address field, the sitio name or the
> purok number? so
> stupid and confusing system, don't you think? you
> can't have both if they
> mean the same. but if you let people use either, your
> database search gets
> messed up.
> 7. some Neighborhood association (which should be in the
> "subdivision" field
> is assigned a "purok" number). While a
> "subdivision" can also be assigned to
> a "barangay" field (see number 5). So who is the
> final arbiter which goes
> where, when filling up an address form? Answer, an LGU
> official registry of
> verified address. If you're address don't appear on
> the system, then you
> apply for one, verfied by the tax mapping if such address
> is under what
> taxdeclaration number, and connected to the Address
> Registry Office if a
> street number, house number, building number, apartment
> number etc is
> already assigned to it, or if it does exist.
> 8. If it's a city within the province, then what do you
> put in the province
> field? blank? We normally dont put Antipolo City, Rizal
> Province (because
> antipolo has it's own congressional district)
> 9. if the city is in Metro Manila, then it would appear
> like Makati City,
> Metro Manila. In which case, what in what field do we put
> "Metro Manila", in
> the province field? (Metro Manila is not a province). If we
> use NCR instead
> of Metro Manila, then I guess, we need to put another field
> for Region,
> because NCR (or Metro Manila)
> http://www.wowphilippines.com.ph/explore_phil/explore_main.asp
> Except for Metro Manila, Region was never a part of address
> system. So why
> put Metro Manila as an exception. It's a waste of
> database field.  gosh, we
> need to teach all these stupid rules to all filipinos as
> early as grade 3
> else they mess up the database, mess up our mail
> deliveries, as well as
> those ambulance and police rescue, and pizza deliveries.
> 10. what about those vacant space in rural areas. No
> problem in vacant
> subdivision lots, because chances are, there's a
> lot/block/phase number
> assigned to it. In rural settings, rarely do an LGU assign
> a SPACE number to
> make it reacheable. Eg. what if you want a truckload of
> panambak delivered
> to it. Or you want to rent it for Perya or Bingo Tent
> operations. In the US,
> they lease these spaces to RV-truck houses. Mails and pizza
> can actually be
> delivered to these SPC (space).
>
> we have lots of these confusing address cases. so where do
> we start? let's
> build a matrix kaya? i'll supply you with actual stupid
> addresses made by
> some people that are giving us headaches and eats up our
> earnings because of
> multiple failed delivery attempts.
>
> let's crunch first the above puzzles above, and make a
> fool-proof
> idiot-proof efficient address system. :-) the resulting
> databse field will
> be the one used in data collection for our pilot project in
> my area.
>

-- 
cheers,
maning
------------------------------------------------------
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
------------------------------------------------------