[talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM
emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com
Thu Mar 19 02:36:45 GMT 2009
I have been discussing with rally about adding addresses to osm. We
all know it's messy here in the Philippines but rally outlined an even
more messy situation!
I hope we can pool our minds together to come-up with a sensible
addressing format for the Philippines.
I've started a wikipage to collect some notes
I suggest we adopt the Karlsruhe Schema and adopt all possible tags
that fit the Philippines.
here's the email from rally (background rally works in courier service
so he knows this stuff very well):
> housenumber : number or alphanumeric (eg 12-C, 5-A), or
> LOT/BLK/PHASE no.
> housename: for addresses on Avenues (eg. ortigas ave ext or
> manila east
> roads) that has no street number, but building names only
> street: sometimes blank (for sitios with no streets; of for
> with no streets - using Lot/Block/Phase)
> state -- not applicable
> for NCR:
> postcode: zipcode
> Note: In the US, "zipcode" combined with
> "house number" and "street name"
> are enough info for a package to be delivered.
> because their expanded zipcode makes the equivalent
> barangay, sitio, town,
> city, state becomes redundant info.
> a specific expanded ZIP points to a small specific area in
> the country. So,
> once a messenger reached that zipcode area, all he has to
> do is look for the
> street and house number. sometimes it includes APT or SPC
> (apartment or
> Space number). no need to specify condo or name of
> townhouse (as they
> consume extra space in the database).
> The dream is for every filipino living in a specific area,
> to know his/her
> expanded zipcode. maybe, all he needs to do is dial his
> landline on his
> area, and the computer answers back with the correct
> zipcode; or simply ask
> the barangay tanod for their zipcode. then, there's no
> need to memorize the
> name of apartment, condo, building name, project
> subdivision. that way, typo
> error don't matter as long as the zipcode is correct.
> according to wiki,
> Taytay Rizal is 41square Km. yet the zip code is one
> 4-digit number for the
> entire town. Now what's the use of this zipcode to a
> messenger? no use.
> my point is, after the tag "addr:street" we must
> go to many other sub-levels
> before going to city or town.
> some barangays in the philppines are just too big for one
> expanded zipcode,
> so we further divide it into sitio or big village or big
> wait, it's not that easy to teach and implement.
> what complicates the address system is the inefficient use
> of address fields
> in paper forms: rural and city addresses need different
> NCR have "districts" and barangays but don't
> have provinces, and sitios and
> puroks are not that many.
> RURAL AREAS have provinces and barangays, but have lots of
> sitios and
> puroks, but practically no districts (except for
> congressional districts
> which is not used on Address system) - because
> congressional district keeps
> on changing very often.
> since there are lots of "streetname duplication"
> in a particular town, rural
> addresses need to specify subdivision name, or sitio or
> purok name or
> neighborhood association name; else the mails get lost.
> There are no laws
> governing the "naming of streets". it's a
> free-for-all system for LGU to
> name it to any names they like.
> if we use all fields (1) house number or Lot/Blk/Phase, (2)
> Floor Number,
> (3) building name or Apartment name, (4) streetname, (5)
> sitio or purok, (6)
> subdivision name (or project name), (7) barangay name, (8)
> town or city
> name, (9) province, (10) regions name, (11) country name,
> (12) zip code...
> gosh there's a lot of field that will be blank or be
> filled up with a lot of
> 1. some don't have House number, but Lot/Blk/Phase ---
> How do you search Lot
> Block Phase? Doesn't make sense and creates logistical
> nightmare. One block
> normally covers 3-4 streets (on all sides) - not
> environment friendly - lots
> of fuel spent searching.
> 2. If Lot/Blk/Phase is used, then some don't use street
> names (especially
> for those subd given permit to sell even without naming
> their streets), then
> after a few years put names on the street and mess up the
> address database.
> 3. if they don't live in a building, then what's
> the use of Floor Number and
> building name field? (imagine the precious terabytes wasted
> on the harddrive
> trying to reserved space for these unused space on a
> typical database)
> 4. some buildings are condos, some office/residential (so
> we use "building"
> field to enter the condo name) when some would insist that
> it should be on
> the "Projects Name" --- same field reserved for
> "Subdivision Name" so which-
> which? what about a townhouse, since these are not
> "buildings" but just a
> "project". There are different impressions from
> different people, so they
> either put it on building (where they normally put condos),
> while others
> will put it on Subdivision (where they put the name of the
> project). What
> about warehouse factories with lots of building names
> inside an industrial
> subdivision? this is easy...
> 5. some subdivision such as beverly hills subd (antipolo)
> is considered "one
> whole barangay" by antipolo city; so where do we put
> it? in "barangay" or
> "subdivision" field? or both? if both, then what
> happened if we print it to
> the mailing envelope using mailmerge... we get
> "beverly hills subd, beverly
> hills subd, antipolo city --- let's you think there
> must be a typo somewhere
> (because of redundancy).
> and to think that half of beverly hills subd is also part
> of Taytay Rizal
> and is just under Barangay Dolores of Taytay. (there's
> boundary dispute)
> 6. some use sitio as another name for purok (in our town,
> that is the case).
> Sitio is the name, while that name has an assigned
> "Purok #". Which one
> should we put on the address field, the sitio name or the
> purok number? so
> stupid and confusing system, don't you think? you
> can't have both if they
> mean the same. but if you let people use either, your
> database search gets
> messed up.
> 7. some Neighborhood association (which should be in the
> "subdivision" field
> is assigned a "purok" number). While a
> "subdivision" can also be assigned to
> a "barangay" field (see number 5). So who is the
> final arbiter which goes
> where, when filling up an address form? Answer, an LGU
> official registry of
> verified address. If you're address don't appear on
> the system, then you
> apply for one, verfied by the tax mapping if such address
> is under what
> taxdeclaration number, and connected to the Address
> Registry Office if a
> street number, house number, building number, apartment
> number etc is
> already assigned to it, or if it does exist.
> 8. If it's a city within the province, then what do you
> put in the province
> field? blank? We normally dont put Antipolo City, Rizal
> Province (because
> antipolo has it's own congressional district)
> 9. if the city is in Metro Manila, then it would appear
> like Makati City,
> Metro Manila. In which case, what in what field do we put
> "Metro Manila", in
> the province field? (Metro Manila is not a province). If we
> use NCR instead
> of Metro Manila, then I guess, we need to put another field
> for Region,
> because NCR (or Metro Manila)
> Except for Metro Manila, Region was never a part of address
> system. So why
> put Metro Manila as an exception. It's a waste of
> database field. gosh, we
> need to teach all these stupid rules to all filipinos as
> early as grade 3
> else they mess up the database, mess up our mail
> deliveries, as well as
> those ambulance and police rescue, and pizza deliveries.
> 10. what about those vacant space in rural areas. No
> problem in vacant
> subdivision lots, because chances are, there's a
> lot/block/phase number
> assigned to it. In rural settings, rarely do an LGU assign
> a SPACE number to
> make it reacheable. Eg. what if you want a truckload of
> panambak delivered
> to it. Or you want to rent it for Perya or Bingo Tent
> operations. In the US,
> they lease these spaces to RV-truck houses. Mails and pizza
> can actually be
> delivered to these SPC (space).
> we have lots of these confusing address cases. so where do
> we start? let's
> build a matrix kaya? i'll supply you with actual stupid
> addresses made by
> some people that are giving us headaches and eats up our
> earnings because of
> multiple failed delivery attempts.
> let's crunch first the above puzzles above, and make a
> idiot-proof efficient address system. :-) the resulting
> databse field will
> be the one used in data collection for our pilot project in
> my area.
"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
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