[talk-ph] Philippine addressing system for OSM

maning sambale emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com
Thu Mar 19 02:41:05 GMT 2009

If we could create a sensible addressing at least for Metro Manila we
can invite businesses to add their address to osm

On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:36 AM, maning sambale
<emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have been discussing with rally about adding addresses to osm.  We
> all know it's messy here in the Philippines but rally outlined an even
> more messy situation!
> I hope we can pool our minds together to come-up with a sensible
> addressing format for the Philippines.
> I've started a wikipage to collect some notes
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Philippines/Philippine_addressing
> I suggest we adopt the Karlsruhe Schema and adopt all possible tags
> that fit the Philippines.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Address
> here's the email from rally (background rally works in courier service
> so he knows this stuff very well):
> ==============
>> housenumber : number or alphanumeric (eg 12-C, 5-A), or
>> housename: for addresses on Avenues (eg. ortigas ave ext or
>> manila east
>> roads) that has no street number, but building names only
>> street: sometimes blank (for sitios with no streets; of for
>> subdivisions
>> with no streets - using Lot/Block/Phase)
>> state -- not applicable
>> for NCR:
>> postcode: zipcode
>> Note: In the US,  "zipcode" combined with
>> "house number" and "street name"
>> are enough info for a package to be delivered.
>> because their expanded zipcode makes the equivalent
>> barangay, sitio, town,
>> city, state becomes redundant info.
>> a specific expanded ZIP points to a small specific area in
>> the country. So,
>> once a messenger reached that zipcode area, all he has to
>> do is look for the
>> street and house number. sometimes it includes APT or SPC
>> (apartment  or
>> Space number). no need to specify condo or name of
>> townhouse (as they
>> consume extra space in the database).
>> The dream is for every filipino living in a specific area,
>> to know his/her
>> expanded zipcode. maybe, all he needs to do is dial his
>> landline on his
>> area, and the computer answers back with the correct
>> zipcode; or simply ask
>> the barangay tanod for their zipcode. then, there's no
>> need to memorize the
>> name of apartment, condo, building name, project
>> subdivision. that way, typo
>> error don't  matter as long as the zipcode is correct.
>> according to wiki,
>> Taytay Rizal is 41square Km. yet the zip code is one
>> 4-digit number for the
>> entire town. Now what's the use of this zipcode to a
>> messenger? no use.
>> my point is, after the tag "addr:street" we must
>> go to many other sub-levels
>> before going to city or town.
>> some barangays in the philppines are just too big for one
>> expanded zipcode,
>> so we further divide it into sitio or big village or big
>> subdivision...
>> wait, it's not that easy to teach and implement.
>> what complicates the address system is the inefficient use
>> of address fields
>> in paper forms: rural and city addresses need different
>> forms.
>> NCR have "districts" and barangays but don't
>> have provinces, and sitios and
>> puroks are not that many.
>> RURAL AREAS have provinces and barangays, but have lots of
>> sitios and
>> puroks, but practically no districts (except for
>> congressional districts
>> which is not used on Address system) - because
>> congressional district keeps
>> on changing very often.
>> since there are lots of "streetname duplication"
>> in a particular town, rural
>> addresses need to specify subdivision name, or sitio or
>> purok name or
>> neighborhood association name; else the mails get lost.
>> There are no laws
>> governing the "naming of streets". it's a
>> free-for-all system for LGU to
>> name it to any names they like.
>> if we use all fields (1) house number or Lot/Blk/Phase, (2)
>> Floor Number,
>> (3) building name or Apartment name, (4) streetname, (5)
>> sitio or purok, (6)
>> subdivision name (or project name), (7) barangay name, (8)
>> town or city
>> name, (9) province, (10) regions name, (11) country name,
>> (12) zip code...
>> gosh there's a lot of field that will be blank or be
>> filled up with a lot of
>> N/A's
>> because:
>> 1. some don't have House number, but Lot/Blk/Phase ---
>> How do you search Lot
>> Block Phase? Doesn't make sense and creates logistical
>> nightmare. One block
>> normally covers 3-4 streets (on all sides) - not
>> environment friendly - lots
>> of fuel spent searching.
>> 2. If Lot/Blk/Phase is used, then some don't use street
>> names (especially
>> for those subd given permit to sell even without naming
>> their streets), then
>> after a few years put names on the street and mess up the
>> address database.
>> 3. if they don't live in a building, then what's
>> the use of Floor Number and
>> building name field? (imagine the precious terabytes wasted
>> on the harddrive
>> trying to reserved space for these unused space on a
>> typical database)
>> 4. some buildings are condos, some office/residential (so
>> we use "building"
>> field to enter the condo name) when some would insist that
>> it should be on
>> the "Projects Name" --- same field reserved for
>> "Subdivision Name" so which-
>> which? what about a townhouse, since these are not
>> "buildings" but just a
>> "project". There are different impressions from
>> different people, so they
>> either put it on building (where they normally put condos),
>> while others
>> will put it on Subdivision (where they put the name of the
>> project). What
>> about warehouse factories with lots of building names
>> inside an industrial
>> subdivision? this is easy...
>> 5. some subdivision such as beverly hills subd (antipolo)
>> is considered "one
>> whole barangay" by antipolo city; so where do we put
>> it? in "barangay" or
>> "subdivision" field? or both? if both, then what
>> happened if we print it to
>> the mailing envelope using mailmerge... we get
>> "beverly hills subd, beverly
>> hills subd, antipolo city --- let's you think there
>> must be a typo somewhere
>> (because of redundancy).
>> and to think that half of beverly hills subd is also part
>> of Taytay Rizal
>> and is just under Barangay Dolores of Taytay. (there's
>> boundary dispute)
>> 6. some use sitio as another name for purok (in our town,
>> that is the case).
>> Sitio is the name, while that name has an assigned
>> "Purok #". Which one
>> should we put on the address field, the sitio name or the
>> purok number? so
>> stupid and confusing system, don't you think? you
>> can't have both if they
>> mean the same. but if you let people use either, your
>> database search gets
>> messed up.
>> 7. some Neighborhood association (which should be in the
>> "subdivision" field
>> is assigned a "purok" number). While a
>> "subdivision" can also be assigned to
>> a "barangay" field (see number 5). So who is the
>> final arbiter which goes
>> where, when filling up an address form? Answer, an LGU
>> official registry of
>> verified address. If you're address don't appear on
>> the system, then you
>> apply for one, verfied by the tax mapping if such address
>> is under what
>> taxdeclaration number, and connected to the Address
>> Registry Office if a
>> street number, house number, building number, apartment
>> number etc is
>> already assigned to it, or if it does exist.
>> 8. If it's a city within the province, then what do you
>> put in the province
>> field? blank? We normally dont put Antipolo City, Rizal
>> Province (because
>> antipolo has it's own congressional district)
>> 9. if the city is in Metro Manila, then it would appear
>> like Makati City,
>> Metro Manila. In which case, what in what field do we put
>> "Metro Manila", in
>> the province field? (Metro Manila is not a province). If we
>> use NCR instead
>> of Metro Manila, then I guess, we need to put another field
>> for Region,
>> because NCR (or Metro Manila)
>> http://www.wowphilippines.com.ph/explore_phil/explore_main.asp
>> Except for Metro Manila, Region was never a part of address
>> system. So why
>> put Metro Manila as an exception. It's a waste of
>> database field.  gosh, we
>> need to teach all these stupid rules to all filipinos as
>> early as grade 3
>> else they mess up the database, mess up our mail
>> deliveries, as well as
>> those ambulance and police rescue, and pizza deliveries.
>> 10. what about those vacant space in rural areas. No
>> problem in vacant
>> subdivision lots, because chances are, there's a
>> lot/block/phase number
>> assigned to it. In rural settings, rarely do an LGU assign
>> a SPACE number to
>> make it reacheable. Eg. what if you want a truckload of
>> panambak delivered
>> to it. Or you want to rent it for Perya or Bingo Tent
>> operations. In the US,
>> they lease these spaces to RV-truck houses. Mails and pizza
>> can actually be
>> delivered to these SPC (space).
>> we have lots of these confusing address cases. so where do
>> we start? let's
>> build a matrix kaya? i'll supply you with actual stupid
>> addresses made by
>> some people that are giving us headaches and eats up our
>> earnings because of
>> multiple failed delivery attempts.
>> let's crunch first the above puzzles above, and make a
>> fool-proof
>> idiot-proof efficient address system. :-) the resulting
>> databse field will
>> be the one used in data collection for our pilot project in
>> my area.
> --
> cheers,
> maning
> ------------------------------------------------------
> "Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
> wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
> blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------

"Freedom is still the most radical idea of all" -N.Branden
wiki: http://esambale.wikispaces.com/
blog: http://epsg4253.wordpress.com/

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