[talk-ph] Possible Scarborough Shoal edit war?

[Rally de Leon]

IMHO... :-)

I don't know how it looks like but I assume there is no land (no local
residents) out there, only fishermen from different countries (but
mostly from PH). Will the 'Ground Rule' apply here?

There's no question it's now a disputed territory (in the news). But
historically, who is the first mapper who claimed and gave Scarborough
Shoal a "local name"? I don't know who, but I really hope it's us ;-)
So the best we can do for PH is to make sure Panatag Shoal / Bajo de
Masinloc names come first before Huang Yan on the LIST; and as long as
by default, it remains "Scarborough". And we ensure that Huang Yan's
name doesn't appear on osm "english format" maps (so that we don't get
irritated). Let them Chinese call it Huang Yan (in chinese characters)
in their own map (for all we care), so that they don't get irritated
as well. Everybody happy! :-)

Because I don't think this dispute will go away in a few years or
decade, and we don't want to give vandals/anarchists a reason to come
in and give trouble to a relatively neutral & peaceful OSM community.
Let the politicians, the military & the activists do their thing and
fight it out there. We as Filipino citizens (not as openstreetmap
mappers) will support our claim.

I suggest to politely advise both Filipino & Chinese openstreetmap
user/editors to remove (and refrain from putting) comments with
'declaration of territorial claims'; only statement of facts
pertaining to the claim/s by any party. Links may be permitted to any
wiki with regards to the dispute.

BTW, is it the same case for us, as we have not officially dropped our
claim to Sabah or did we? (Ground Rule may apply here). Can we or
should we do the same on Sabah? We will probably lose (in Sabah on
historical basis / practical basis), just as China will probably lose
to us anyway if we finally succeed to bring the issue to court.



On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 9:39 AM, ianlopez <ian_lopez_1115 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Re:"adopt the tag or just be firm in asserting our claim to panatag shoal and tag it as PH territory"
>
> I believe that we should adopt the On the Ground Rule [1] on this one. I'm not sure about the relevant laws of the other claimants but we have a law stating that Scarborough is part of Philippine territory[2].
>
> I just hope that the current edit war won't spread to the Kalayaan Group of Islands. If that happens, then it won't be long before we take this matter to the Data Working Group.
>
>
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputes#On_the_Ground_Rule
> [2] Section 2b, Republic Act 9522
>
> ------------------------------
> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 1:00 AM SGT Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
>>The saga continues...
>>
>>A new, presumably, Chinese user did his first edit:
>>http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11792728
>>
>>The comment on the changeset is (translated using Google): "Huangyan
>>Island is Chinese territory"
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 1:52 PM, tutubi
>><tutubi at backpackingphilippines.com> wrote:
>>> question: should we adopt the tag or just be firm in asserting our claim to panatag shoal and tag it as PH territory?
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my Nokia 5110, made in Finland!
>>>
>>> On Jun 4, 2012, at 10:12 AM, maning sambale <emmanuel.sambale at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike Collinson added the tag is_in:country=disputed_territory when he
>>> imported GNS names [0], should we add this (or a modified version) in
>>> Scarborough?
>>>
>>> [0] http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/302105933
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Well, there's no edit war going on yet, but there's someone from China
>>>> who did the following changesets:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11769249
>>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/changeset/11769301
>>>>
>>>> The first changeset removed the Philippine boundary enclosing the
>>>> shoal previously set by Ian Lopez, and changed default name of the
>>>> shoal itself to Chinese: "黄岩岛" (which means "Huangyan Island"). The
>>>> second changeset added the following tag: note="菲佣去死!!!!!!", which
>>>> Google translate doesn't seem to do a good job of translating but
>>>> seems to be an insult to Filipina maids, I think. :-/
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, I've fixed the name tagging of the shoal so that the default
>>>> name is "Scarborough Shoal", which is the neutral international name.
>>>> The complete name tags are the following:
>>>>
>>>> INTERNATIONAL:
>>>> name:en = Scarborough Shoal
>>>> alt_name = Scarborough Reef
>>>>
>>>> CHINESE:
>>>> name:en-CN = Huangyan Island
>>>> name:zh = 黄岩岛
>>>> name:zh_pinyin = Huángyán Dǎo
>>>>
>>>> PHILIPPINE:
>>>> name:en-PH = Panatag Shoal
>>>> alt_name:en-PH = Bajo de Masinloc
>>>> name:tl = Kulumpol ng Panatag
>>>> alt_name:tl = Bajo de Masinloc
>>>> name:es = Bajo de Masinloc
>>>>
>>>> VIETNAMESE:
>>>> name:vi = Bãi cạn Scarborough
>>>> alt_name:vi = Đảo Hoàng Nham
>>
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