[talk-ph] Icons on POI's - Proposal

Sun May 25 05:24:42 UTC 2014

I also have a question about places:ph, there are a LOT in the database, I
guess they are implemented with other tags, is there a definitive list of
what the other tags are?

Seem like Barangays mostly, but possibly some other places?

Regards

Mark Cupitt

"If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"

See me on Open StreetMap <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>

See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>

*See me on StackExchange <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*

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On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Mark Cupitt <markcupitt at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Eugene, while we are discussing this, is it worth displaying the
> opening hours as part of the poi description if it is in the database?? It
> is kind of relevant to people who look at a map ..
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Cheers
> Mark
>
>
> Regards
>
> Mark Cupitt
>
> "If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"
>
> See me on Open StreetMap <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>
>
> See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>
>
>
> *See me on StackExchange <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*
>
>
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> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Mark Cupitt <markcupitt at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Eugene, We were considering the editor links that but had not made a
>> decision. That decision is now made and we will do it. We will provide an
>> authentication against Osm for the login Id, and if authenticated, these
>> Edit icons will display so that edits can be done there and then. A much
>> better idea than displaying data on the map.
>>
>> This way, general users will not see the more technical side of the map.
>>
>> The Poly is interesting, I see it shows a "Burger Icon" as well as the
>> poly, I checked the database and it looks like the burger is being
>> displayed on the centroid of the polygon, not a node and a polygon.
>>
>> It is tagged as landuse=retail, cuisine=burger, amenity=fast_food,
>> Name=Mcdonald's
>>
>> we can certainly do that. Would be nice to see the Golden Arches in there
>> instead of the generic burger
>>
>> The easist way to do this is to apply the same rules to ways and
>> relations as the poi's (nodes) (in fact they are all ways in the database
>> after the import) and show an icon on the polygon centroid if it matches.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Mark Cupitt
>>
>> "If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"
>>
>> See me on Open StreetMap <https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>
>>
>> See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>
>>
>>
>> *See me on StackExchange
>> <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*
>>
>>
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>>
>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
>>>
>>> QUESTION Is the OSM ID of the offending node of any value if displayed
>>>> in square brackets behind the poi description?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is of value to OSM mappers but not the end users.
>>>
>>> For OSM mappers, I think it would be more useful if you provided links
>>> to edit the map at that particular POI instead of the OSM ID. Please look
>>> at the Geofabrik map website for an example:
>>> http://tools.geofabrik.de/map/#18/14.5501/121.0512&type=Geofabrik_Standard
>>>
>>> At the bottom there are 3 edit icons that link to the 3 most popular OSM
>>> editors. Each link lets you bring up your editor of choice and edit at the
>>> current map view.
>>>
>>> Also, when you display POIs, do you also consider POIs that are mapped
>>> as a polygon (or even as a relation polygon) instead of as a node? For
>>> example, this McDonald's: http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/38064636
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 12:25 PM, Mark Cupitt <markcupitt at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Eugene, I think will set it up for option two, but will only update
>>>> the database for the more obvious ones for now and see what we actually get
>>>> on the map when done (tons of red or a only few)
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at query optimization now to speed this process up, and
>>>> the way it looks, once it is done the first time, I may be able to
>>>> structure the database so that the update queries run only of the data from
>>>> the daily diff updates, not the whole database.
>>>>
>>>> If that is the case, then it is just a matter of determine the tag and
>>>> keyword combinations to check for and running the update queries
>>>>
>>>> I think it is worth the investment in time to make a Philippine OSM Map
>>>> usable by everyone and all the hard work by mappers here useful.  Perhaps
>>>> it might encourage more mappers if there is more control over how their map
>>>> looks at the end of the day :)
>>>>
>>>> QUESTION Is the OSM ID of the offending node of any value if displayed
>>>> in square brackets behind the poi description?
>>>>
>>>> Cheers
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Mark Cupitt
>>>>
>>>> "If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"
>>>>
>>>> See me on Open StreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>
>>>>
>>>> See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *See me on StackExchange
>>>> <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Eugene Alvin Villar <seav80 at gmail.com
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>
>>>>> Both options you mentioned are equally OK depending on what is needed.
>>>>> It is a classic trade-off situation. If you want the map to be more
>>>>> user-friendly, you need to spend more effort and resources. I myself prefer
>>>>> the 2nd option, but that entails a lot more work on your part.
>>>>>
>>>>> How about we do the 1st option at first since it is easier? I'm sure
>>>>> OSM mappers will also dislike seeing meaningless red circles and will fix
>>>>> the data so that the map becomes more useful. I hope that this would result
>>>>> in a much more usable map without having to do the work to implement the
>>>>> 2nd option or make the 2nd option less urgent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eugene
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Mark Cupitt <markcupitt at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Eugene,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do agree it is better to fix the data .. an iconfile tag could lead
>>>>>> to lots of difficult items to fix later and will not render in the main OSM
>>>>>> map anyway, and could lead to lazy mapping practices.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are a couple of options
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) I only display legit icons for the correct tags as per the osm ph
>>>>>> tagging page. anything else not covered by the correct tags will get a red
>>>>>> circle that makes it obvious that it does not meet the standards. The only
>>>>>> problem with this is that it may make he map harder to use for public
>>>>>> users, lots of red circles that are meaningless.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Try and evaluate all the tags and make a good guess, but add a
>>>>>> small red X to or a circle around the icon that indicates that it is not
>>>>>> tagged correctly and needs to be fixed. this makes the map more usable to
>>>>>> the public but also usable to mappers who can fix the data. This is a lot
>>>>>> more work on my part and the database, but would result, eventually, in a
>>>>>> well structured map and tagging scheme. If it helped, I could also put the
>>>>>> tag id behind the description in the case of incorrect tags so that you can
>>>>>> go straight to the tag in JOSM, etc
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark Cupitt
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See me on Open StreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *See me on StackExchange
>>>>>> <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> The contents of this email are intended only for the individual(s) to
>>>>>> whom it is addressed and may contain
>>>>>> confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended
>>>>>> recipient, you must not disclose, copy, distribute,
>>>>>> or use the contents of this email. If you have received this email in
>>>>>> error, please notify the sender immediately and
>>>>>> delete the email and any attachments.
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 4:44 AM, Eugene Alvin Villar <
>>>>>> seav80 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think it would be better for all users of the data in the long run
>>>>>>> that the inconsistent name field is the one corrected instead of your
>>>>>>> system adjusting for it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Let's say that you have a "rule" that says that that name=McDonald's
>>>>>>> with amenity=fast_food gets the Golden Arches icon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Now let's say you have other rules that detect stuff that are
>>>>>>> probably McDonald's: name=McDonalds amenity=restaurant
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Instead of tagging stuff like this with an additional tag
>>>>>>> icon:ph=mcdonalds.png, it would be better to correct those POIs that don't
>>>>>>> follow the correct tagging. If you have a system that detects such
>>>>>>> near-misses, then I'm sure the community would like to get a list of them
>>>>>>> so that they can be corrected.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I hope other mappers and users can chime in with their ideas.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, May 22, 2014 at 6:32 PM, Mark Cupitt <markcupitt at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Folks, have been thinking about how we specify Icons for POI's in
>>>>>>>> the Philippines OSM Map. I have Icons for most of the PH specific
>>>>>>>> businesses, like Jollibee, Banks, and so on and would like to use them
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> At the moment, the only way to do this is to run through the
>>>>>>>> database checking the name tag and seeing if it starts with jollibee, BDO
>>>>>>>> mcdo, etc. This is a very intensive effort on a million+ points. I am doing
>>>>>>>> the code for it now and it has to be run on a very regular basis to pick up
>>>>>>>> new POI'S from the daily diff updates. It also suffers form spelling
>>>>>>>> errors, and fomat errors, for example "the jollibee" will to be identified
>>>>>>>> as the name has to start with "jollibee" (in text string searches in
>>>>>>>> postgres do not use indexes, and are too expensive on the database, so we
>>>>>>>> have to assume that the name starts with the search text.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will publish the icons we have at some stage very soon where they
>>>>>>>> can be viewed by anyone.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To make it very easy to have granular control over icon display, I
>>>>>>>> propose that we do the following:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Add an icon:ph tag to nodes as they are created that contains the
>>>>>>>> filename of the icon to display (from the list published)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For example, a node of a Mcdonalds might have a tag
>>>>>>>> amenity="fast_food" name="Mcdonalds Quezon City" and a
>>>>>>>> icon:ph="mcdonalds.png"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The system will first check if the icon:ph exists and use the icon
>>>>>>>> specified in that. if not, it will fall back to database determined value
>>>>>>>> done on a weekly or monthly basis, with all the inherent pitfalls in the
>>>>>>>> use of the name field. If that does not work, it will display a generic
>>>>>>>> icon which is a Red Dot.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One big advantage of this proposal is that people can submit their
>>>>>>>> own logos in icon form, they are easy to add to the system, them specify
>>>>>>>> them for specific businesses, leisure, bars, etc. on the actual poi ..so
>>>>>>>> the value added to the map will be tremendous in the future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thoughts, flames, thumbs up, thumbs down, rounds of applause on
>>>>>>>> this proposal very much appreciated ..
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mark Cupitt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "If we change the world, let it bear the mark of our intelligence"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See me on Open StreetMap<https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mark_Cupitt>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See me on LinkedIn <http://ph.linkedin.com/in/markcupitt>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> *See me on StackExchange
>>>>>>>> <http://gis.stackexchange.com/users/17846/mark-c>*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>> The contents of this email are intended only for the individual(s)
>>>>>>>> to whom it is addressed and may contain
>>>>>>>> confidential or privileged information. If you are not the intended
>>>>>>>> recipient, you must not disclose, copy, distribute,
>>>>>>>> or use the contents of this email. If you have received this email
>>>>>>>> in error, please notify the sender immediately and
>>>>>>>> delete the email and any attachments.
>>>>>>>> ===============================================================================================
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> talk-ph mailing list
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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