[Talk-transit] Old railways

[Tijmen Stam]

On 12-05-19 17:48, Jarek Piórkowski wrote:
> On Sun, 12 May 2019 at 07:54, Tijmen Stam <mailinglists at iivq.net> wrote:
>> In my environment, some people are adding old ("razed" railways to
>> openstreetmak, of which no trace is visible in the field.
>> It concerns both old railways which have been gone since 1933, e.g.
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/592259029 (Note that this piece still
>> is somewhat visible, as it is now a road and partially a cycle path).
> 
> Hi Tijmen,
> 
> The "canonical" answer is that things that no longer exist in real
> life and there is no trace of them do not belong in OpenStreetMap.
> 
> How strict you want to interpret this probably depends more on local
> community consensus than on talk-transit guidance.
> 
> Tagging of removed railways that are now paths _in the same alignment_
> seems relatively uncontroversial. https://osm.org/way/583243933 is an
> example local to me.

Yeah, I hold that same thing too. Basically path and track I still 
double-tag as railway=abandoned, but when it becomes a proper highway, I 
generally don't.
I do tag razed when most of a longer railway is still (very) visible in 
the field, but short sections are no longer, as e.g. they have become a 
highway through/around a village. E.g. 
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/419757167> or 
<https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/191384386> (that latter should've 
been razed, not abandoned)

> Your example of way 592259029 seems to me a bit
> ambitious in that it traces alignment where it is no longer evident,
> such as over houses, and https://osm.org/way/592259043 is a bridge
> that no longer exists... I would not include this in OSM.

>> Another example is a tram line in Amsterdam that has been gone for a
>> year now <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/672838805>, the area has
>> been completely redeveloped, no trace of the old tram tracks remains.
> 
> IMO this should not be in OSM.

Then we think alike.

>> I only recently found out about openrailwaymap, but I can't find much
>> information about it. It seems it gets its data from the OSM database.
>>
>> Is there a way to store "razed" railways somewhere else, so they will
>> show up on openrailwaymap but not on OSM (they are rendered on some
>> renderers, e.g. OSMAND)
> 
> There does exist
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Open_Historical_Map which is a
> separate database intended for things that used to exist but don't
> anymore.
> 
> Although this would be technically and legally possible, I doubt that
> OpenRailwayMap currently integrates data from OHM.

Thank you so much!

To not "lose" the hard work of others, I have copied (part of) the 
abandoned/razed railways from OSM to OHM, added it with data from 
Wikipedia. Now I have to remove the data from OSM, but that's quite some 
work so I will do that later.

<http://www.openhistoricalmap.org/?edit_help=1#map=16/52.7820/4.8315&layers=H>

Thanks for that!

Btw, do you know of a way to copy data from one layer in JOSM to 
another, while keeping it at the exact same position?