[Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal

Kevin Atkinson kevin at atkinson.dhs.org
Mon Aug 2 23:08:36 BST 2010

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Alan Mintz wrote:

See below for general comments:

>> Some Examples)
>> To encode "South 700 East" in Salt Lake City:
>>   name = "S. 700 East"
>>   name_prefix = "included"
>>   alt_name = "South 700 East"
> I would use
> name = "South 700 East"
> name_prefix = "S"
> name_prefix_included = yes
> name_root = "700"
> name_suffix = "E"

Note, I would not consider "East" a suffix.

> name continues to be used for the full expanded name
> name_prefix_included indicates that the name_prefix is normally given on the 
> signage in front of the name_root, and used in naming a place or giving 
> directions verbally.
> I don't think the distinction needs to be made between the suffix's inclusion 
> in the name or not (at least I can't think of an example in the places I know 
> to use them - DC and UT). That is, it is always considered in the same way. 
> If that's not the case, name_suffix_included could be used.
>> "K Street NW" in Washington DC,
>>   name = "K Street NW"
>>   name_suffix = "included"
>>   alt_name = "K Street Northwest" (would anyone really write this?)
> I'd use:
> name = "K Street Northwest" (or is it "K Street NorthWest"?)
> name_root = "K"
> name_type = "St"
> name_suffix = "NW"
> Note splitting out the type of street into name_type while we're at it.
>>   alt_name = "K Street Northwest" (would anyone really write this?)
> I agree, but the abbreviation police held their ground last time we tried 
> this, so...
> Some examples from southern CA:
> 1. Most places do not include the directional prefix as part of the signed 
> name. If it is present, it is thought of more as a suffix to the address. It 
> may be shown next to the address range on the signs in that smaller font, not 
> in front of the name in larger font.
> Current value of name = "North Euclid Avenue"
> name = "Euclid Avenue"
> name_prefix = "N"
> name_root = "Euclid"
> name_type = "Ave"
> Note that, in many places, TIGER had these prefixes and they were imported as 
> part of the name because TIGER made no distiction between this and case #2 
> (below). They were then expanded to the incorrect form "North Euclid Ave". In 
> this example, the prefix isn't even really a prefix to the name, but instead 
> a suffix to the housenumber, though I'm OK with using the name_prefix tag to 
> avoid confusion. An addr:direction tag would be OK instead. I look forward to 
> being able to fix these once we settle on the schema.
> 2. Some, however, do use the prefix on the signs and in verbal. The direction 
> appears in front of the name in the same font:
> name = "West 17th Street"
> name_prefix = "W"
> name_prefix_included = yes
> name_root = "17th"
> name_type = "St"
> 3. In Rancho Cucamonga, the Victoria Gardens mall has two major streets 
> running through it, named and signed  "North Mainstreet" and "South 
> Mainstreet". In this case, "North" and "South", as well as "street", are 
> really part of the name root, and not directions or type. This is because 
> they are aligned E/W (90 degrees true) and an address-suffix-style 
> name_prefix would be E or W on such a street, not N or S, and you would 
> expect them to meet at the point where N turns to S, and for the numbering to 
> reverse direction at that point, none of which is true:
> name = "North Mainstreet"
> name_root = "North Mainstreet"
> 4. In Rancho Cucamonga, directional prefixes are not used at all. There are 
> no north/south or east/west inflection points. Addresses increase southward 
> and eastward, often through adjoining cities who don't use directions either. 
> Thus, we have a lot of 5-digit addresses.
> name = "Foothill Boulevard"
> name_root = "Foothill"
> name_type = "Blvd"
> Note that this structure is necessary for example 3, or there would be 
> confusion over having two directional prefixes in an address.
> 5. Similar to #3 is part of Vermont Avenue, a major N/S artery in Los 
> Angeles. They installed light-rail tracks down the middle of it and turned it 
> into two one-way streets, signed "West Vermont Ave" and "East Vermont Ave".
> name = "West Vermont Avenue"
> name_root = "West Vermont"
> name_type = "Ave"

I think it is too many tags.  No user is going to enter in all those tags 
when adding names.  I wanted to keep it simple with only two new tags. 
Most of your other tags can fairly easily be derived using my two tags.

I use "included" rather than yet another tag, to simplify entry and it 
does not significantly complicate programs which want to make use of the 
tag. (If the word is "included" it is fairly simple to extract it from the 
name.), but I'm not dead set on this.

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