[Talk-us] Directional Prefix/Postfix Proposal

Kevin Atkinson kevin at atkinson.dhs.org
Tue Aug 3 08:24:32 BST 2010


One more specific question below:

On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Kevin Atkinson wrote:

> On Mon, 2 Aug 2010, Alan Mintz wrote:
>
> See below for general comments:
>
>>> Some Examples)
>>> 
>>> To encode "South 700 East" in Salt Lake City:
>>>   name = "S. 700 East"
>>>   name_prefix = "included"
>>>   alt_name = "South 700 East"
>> 
>> I would use
>> name = "South 700 East"
>> name_prefix = "S"
>> name_prefix_included = yes
>> name_root = "700"
>> name_suffix = "E"
>
> Note, I would not consider "East" a suffix.
>
>> 
>> name continues to be used for the full expanded name
>> 
>> name_prefix_included indicates that the name_prefix is normally given on 
>> the signage in front of the name_root, and used in naming a place or giving 
>> directions verbally.
>> 
>> I don't think the distinction needs to be made between the suffix's 
>> inclusion in the name or not (at least I can't think of an example in the 
>> places I know to use them - DC and UT). That is, it is always considered in 
>> the same way. If that's not the case, name_suffix_included could be used.
>> 
>>> "K Street NW" in Washington DC,
>>>   name = "K Street NW"
>>>   name_suffix = "included"
>>>   alt_name = "K Street Northwest" (would anyone really write this?)
>> 
>> I'd use:
>> 
>> name = "K Street Northwest" (or is it "K Street NorthWest"?)
>> name_root = "K"
>> name_type = "St"
>> name_suffix = "NW"
>> 
>> Note splitting out the type of street into name_type while we're at it.
>> 
>>
>>>   alt_name = "K Street Northwest" (would anyone really write this?)
>> 
>> I agree, but the abbreviation police held their ground last time we tried 
>> this, so...
>> 
>> 
>> Some examples from southern CA:
>> 
>> 1. Most places do not include the directional prefix as part of the signed 
>> name. If it is present, it is thought of more as a suffix to the address. 
>> It may be shown next to the address range on the signs in that smaller 
>> font, not in front of the name in larger font.
>> 
>> Current value of name = "North Euclid Avenue"
>> name = "Euclid Avenue"
>> name_prefix = "N"
>> name_root = "Euclid"
>> name_type = "Ave"
>> 
>> Note that, in many places, TIGER had these prefixes and they were imported 
>> as part of the name because TIGER made no distiction between this and case 
>> #2 (below). They were then expanded to the incorrect form "North Euclid 
>> Ave". In this example, the prefix isn't even really a prefix to the name, 
>> but instead a suffix to the housenumber, though I'm OK with using the 
>> name_prefix tag to avoid confusion. An addr:direction tag would be OK 
>> instead. I look forward to being able to fix these once we settle on the 
>> schema.
>> 
>> 
>> 2. Some, however, do use the prefix on the signs and in verbal. The 
>> direction appears in front of the name in the same font:
>> 
>> name = "West 17th Street"
>> name_prefix = "W"
>> name_prefix_included = yes
>> name_root = "17th"
>> name_type = "St"

So what does the sign really say: "W 17th St", "West 17th St", etc?

>> 3. In Rancho Cucamonga, the Victoria Gardens mall has two major streets 
>> running through it, named and signed  "North Mainstreet" and "South 
>> Mainstreet". In this case, "North" and "South", as well as "street", are 
>> really part of the name root, and not directions or type. This is because 
>> they are aligned E/W (90 degrees true) and an address-suffix-style 
>> name_prefix would be E or W on such a street, not N or S, and you would 
>> expect them to meet at the point where N turns to S, and for the numbering 
>> to reverse direction at that point, none of which is true:
>> 
>> name = "North Mainstreet"
>> name_root = "North Mainstreet"
>> 
>> 
>> 4. In Rancho Cucamonga, directional prefixes are not used at all. There are 
>> no north/south or east/west inflection points. Addresses increase southward 
>> and eastward, often through adjoining cities who don't use directions 
>> either. Thus, we have a lot of 5-digit addresses.
>> 
>> name = "Foothill Boulevard"
>> name_root = "Foothill"
>> name_type = "Blvd"
>> 
>> Note that this structure is necessary for example 3, or there would be 
>> confusion over having two directional prefixes in an address.
>> 
>> 
>> 5. Similar to #3 is part of Vermont Avenue, a major N/S artery in Los 
>> Angeles. They installed light-rail tracks down the middle of it and turned 
>> it into two one-way streets, signed "West Vermont Ave" and "East Vermont 
>> Ave".
>> 
>> name = "West Vermont Avenue"
>> name_root = "West Vermont"
>> name_type = "Ave"
>
> I think it is too many tags.  No user is going to enter in all those tags 
> when adding names.  I wanted to keep it simple with only two new tags. Most 
> of your other tags can fairly easily be derived using my two tags.
>
> I use "included" rather than yet another tag, to simplify entry and it does 
> not significantly complicate programs which want to make use of the tag. (If 
> the word is "included" it is fairly simple to extract it from the name.), but 
> I'm not dead set on this.
>
>
>
>
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