[Talk-us] border screwup by ToeBee needs reverting

Toby Murray toby.murray at gmail.com
Fri Mar 25 08:17:16 GMT 2011

On Fri, Mar 25, 2011 at 2:56 AM, Nathan Edgars II <neroute2 at gmail.com> wrote:
> User ToeBee has, in several changesets in February, aligned state borders to
> exact lat/long. The problem is that this is not how the borders are defined;
> instead they are based on work that the 19th century surveyors did with the
> tools they had. Two obvious examples follow:
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/158796015/history is the famous
> "Four Corners":
> http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705298412/Four-Corners-marker-212-miles-off-Too-late.html
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/node/158790476/history is the northwest
> corner of Colorado, which is also marked by a large monument, visible on
> aerials.
> It's likely that any border node moved by ToeBee needs to be reverted. I
> tried to do this after informing him (he's currently denying there's a
> problem), but JOSM's reverter plugin is giving hundreds of conflicts. This
> damage needs to be undone.

I am not saying my edit was perfect. But the position of the nodes
before my edit was even further off than it is now. The northwest node
is now 10 meters straight south of the monument where it was over 1km
east. The southwest node was off by 1km as well and is now about 400
meters west. At the end of the day, the only reason I felt I could
even make these changes is because the source for the borders in the
US isn't that great to begin with. They are all over-noded. County
borders don't align with state borders. Most of the county borders I
have worked with are visibly off by up to a couple hundred feet.
Apparently in this case I didn't look for the monuments specifically
though. My bad.

I made the map better. I did not make it perfect. And while I did
(apparently mistakenly) use lat/lon values in my work, I did take
other things into consideration. It was not a blind change.

Reverting over 850 objects because I'm off by a few meters is beyond
extreme. I might add that trying to revert such a large changeset
without even waiting for a reply is also somewhat rude. Good thing I'm
a night owl I guess.


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