[Talk-us] [Imports] shawnee county landuse

Sat Dec 22 02:59:13 GMT 2012

To be clear, you do *not* have a license for this data but are relying on
fair use and your opinion of what is copyrighted?

Also, are you relying on the fact that others haven’t gotten into trouble as
support for this import being legally okay?

From: Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedupont at googlemail.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 6:51 PM
To: Paul Norman
Cc: imports; talk-us at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

Well we can remove the names of the lbcs codes, I left them for now because
it is very useful for editing. I am using them to search while editing etc. 

Well the amount of data we are extracting is very very limited, I see this
as basic fair use and factual information. The county gis officer knows what
I am doing and did not say anything. The data should be easy to delete if
needed.

Right now I am still working out the tagging of the various nodes, and when
it all done we will remove the lbcs data when it is no longer needed.

This is all work in progress, but already the osm database is better than
google and other databases, I have been removing misplaced tags and nodes. 

Also on the issue of violation of the kansas law, trulia and zillow and many
others have real copies of this data in a much more commercial manner and I
dont see that they are getting in trouble. I dont think it will be a big
issue.

mike

On Fri, Dec 21, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Paul Norman <penorman at mac.com> wrote:

You are proposing importing both the code *and* the description of the code.
Why both? 

For that matter, why either at all? A user isn’t going to know what to do
with it when editing the other tags.

I can’t see a link to the license on the wiki. Could you please provide one.
A lack of a license does not indicate public domain. Some counties consider
their geodata to be PD, some don’t. It’s likely that Shawanee does, but
there’s no confirmation of that that I see.

The K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)(B) declaration is a bit odd. It doesn’t seem to
match up exactly with K.S.A. 45-230 which is titled “unlawful use of names
derived from public records.”

Remember, ODbL like any open license (e.g. CC BY, CC0, CC BY-SA, etc) allows
people to resell the data. Someone could take the OSM address data and do a
mass mailing based on it.

I guess *you* might get into trouble based on it but the person doing so
would probably be okay since they didn’t make the K.S.A. 45-220(c)(2)
certification.

From: Mike Dupont [mailto:jamesmikedupont at googlemail.com] 
Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 9:51 AM
To: Martin Koppenhöfer
Cc: Paul Norman; imports; talk-us at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Imports] [Talk-us] shawnee county landuse

I have added the info to the wiki

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Kansas/Shawnee_County/Import

also the scripts are updated. I am been manually replacing the  plot info
with just the building, so the only info being imported are the house
numbers and zip codes and the lbcs tags. Also for the new script, I create a
single point with the average location of the points making up the plot and
then manually place that on top of the major building manually. this checks
the data and also basically removes all data being copied, everything is
only just the basic facts. 

mike

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 7:14 AM, Mike Dupont
<jamesmikedupont at googlemail.com> wrote:

On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 2:09 AM, Martin Koppenhöfer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
wrote:

Am 15/dic/2012 um 22:39 schrieb Mike  Dupont
<jamesmikedupont at googlemail.com>:

3.       What tagging are you proposing?

addr:* and landuse
the only additional tag are the four detailed landuse tags
eg 
lbcs:activity:code    {1100=1}
lbcs:activity:name    {Household activities=1}
lbcs:function:code    {1170=1}
lbcs:function:name    {Garden apartment complex (1=1}

These codes are details on how the lot is zoned. otherwise I am using this
information for fixing the street names and zip codes. 

Are the landuses you plan to tag actual landuses or permitted/planned
landuses?

These are actual landuses, the ones that describe the business.
when you register a business here in kansas, you have to provide this
information. 
https://www.kansas.gov/bess/flow/main?execution=e1s1

I will also be looking into how that data can be extracted and compared some
day. This is more than zoning infomation.
If you look at this for example :
http://www.snco.us/Ap/C_prop/Listing.asp?PRCL_ID=0973604030001000

"2151-Grocery store / supermarket"    
"2110-Goods-oriented shopping"

that is very accurate and could be used for direct tag information.

there is a building layer on the snco gis site, but I have not figured out
how to extract it, it seems to be hidden. So I am tracing them from bing.
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/7
http://gis.snco.us/ArcGIS/rest/services/Basemap_102100/MapServer/8

4.       The last few times someone has proposed importing property lot data
the consensus has been that that type of data shouldn’t be imported into
OSM. Why is this different?

I am importing the plots for zipcode, house number and address data. It is
being used to tag the buildings, it can be deleted when it has been totally
processed. 

IMHO addresses belong (often) to plots, so in these cases there is no point
in transferring the address information to a building. Don't remember
consensus to not import property limits. I do remember though that there
were concerns about the sheer amount of data increase if we imported this
for the whole world.

Cheers,

Martin

Well these are plots/property limits. And I dont want to import them for the
whole world, just the streets  that I am tracing buildings from so that  I
can quickly find locations. Also did you notice that
http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/ can now find house numbers accurately
for these streets I imported : 

http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd%
2C+Topeka%2C+Kansas
<http://nominatim.openstreetmap.org/search.php?q=2033+Southwest+Wanamaker+Rd
%2C+Topeka%2C+Kansas&viewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C-70.31>
&viewbox=-217.97%2C80.28%2C217.97%2C-70.31

Until the houses are traced and the data transfered like i did here :

http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/196582551 I removed the plot and the
lbcs data and left only the house itself.
I forgot the landuse=residential. 

-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3

-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3 

-- 
James Michael DuPont
Member of Free Libre Open Source Software Kosova http://flossk.org
Saving wikipedia(tm) articles from deletion http://SpeedyDeletion.wikia.com
Contributor FOSM, the CC-BY-SA map of the world http://fosm.org
Mozilla Rep https://reps.mozilla.org/u/h4ck3rm1k3
Free Software Foundation Europe Fellow http://fsfe.org/support/?h4ck3rm1k3 

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