[Talk-us] Turn restriction dispute

Paul Johnson baloo at ursamundi.org
Sun Feb 10 03:26:25 GMT 2013


If that really is the case and he's not welcome to participate in the list,
then I agree, it's time for him to find another hobby.  Seconded.


On Sat, Feb 9, 2013 at 8:10 PM, Russ Nelson <nelson at crynwr.com> wrote:

> He's banned from (at least) this list. Consequently, you cannot expect
> him to discuss this issue here.
>
> We had a discussion of whether to ban him from editing in the past,
> which never really got resolved. It just died out. Yes, he's done a
> lot of editing, and yes, some of his edits have been fruitful, but no,
> some of his edits have been less than helpful. I wouldn't miss him if
> he were gone.
>
> I vote, not that anybody called for a vote, to ask him to leave.
> -russ
>
> Paul Johnson writes:
>  > A minor update, since NE2 refuses to handle this as a community:
>  >
>  > Me: I'm no longer accepting input on this outside of the mailing list.
> If
>  > you want to have any further opinion on this, post to the thread in
>  > talk-us.
>  > NE2: You know I can't do that. By refusing to discuss you forfeit.
>  > Me: I'm not going to have this discussion with you someplace you can
>  > unilaterally
>  > declare victory independently in a vaccuum, that isn't how OpenStreetMap
>  > works. You need to follow the thread and sort out your differences with
> the
>  > moderators.
>  >
>  > Again, since the consensus is this restriction is a valid one despite
> what
>  > NE2 is suggesting, I intend to revert the deletion.  Not sure who our
>  > dispute management authorities are these days (since I'm not sure it's
> DWG
>  > or not), but I'd like to know how to keep them in the loop on this.
>  >
>  >
>  > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Apollinaris Schöll <aschoell at gmail.com
> >wrote:
>  >
>  > > I looked a bit more and in many jurisdiction it's illegal anyway to go
>  > > around a traffic jam  by exiting a freeway and go back direct on the
> next
>  > > onramp. Even more reason to have a restriction. Tested Google maps
> and it
>  > > will make a big detour to avoid this illegal straight on.
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > >
>  > > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:59 PM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org>
> wrote:
>  > >
>  > >> Good point, though was hoping someone in the Orlando area other than
> NE2
>  > >> could weigh in (since this is a rare example of me chasing a Mapdust
> bug
>  > >> out to his area).
>  > >>
>  > >>
>  > >> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Apollinaris Schöll <
> aschoell at gmail.com>wrote:
>  > >>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>> On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:58 PM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org
> >wrote:
>  > >>>
>  > >>>> NE2 is going on the "World according to NE2" bender again, need a
>  > >>>> ruling on this relation before I revert:
>  > >>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2249811
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>> Turn in question is southbound World Drive at Buena Vista Drive in
>  > >>>> Orlando, http://binged.it/128OlwZ.  Despite left turn only
> markings on
>  > >>>> the southbound approach and a flush median gore preventing a
> straight-on
>  > >>>> movement, NE2 is of the opinion, and removed the relation, on the
> excuse
>  > >>>> that "Anyway, I've deleted the turn restriction, since I cannot
> recall
>  > >>>> having seen any signs prohibiting the movement, and you have not
> seen any
>  > >>>> such signs because you have not been there." Never mind that the
> left
>  > >>>> turn only sign is clearly marked on the pavement. He questioned
> the legal
>  > >>>> standing of the marking since it omits "ONLY," despite the fact
> that
>  > >>>> section 4.2.1 of the Florida Traffic Engineering Manual requires
> ONLY to be
>  > >>>> omitted in situations such as the ramp in question (a
> straight/left arrow
>  > >>>> would be required for a through-or-left-turn lane).
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>> Who's right?
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>>
>  > >>> You. it's clearly signed on the pavement. We are no lawyers to
> challenge
>  > >>> his interpretation in court. So as long as no one gets a ticket and
> wins
>  > >>> the court case it's the right thing to have a restriction.
>  > >>> And NE2 is known for fighting just for the fight. I come across
> tons of
>  > >>> crap from him in areas he has never seen. I fix it and don't even
> consider
>  > >>> to contact him.
>  > >>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>>> _______________________________________________
>  > >>>> Talk-us mailing list
>  > >>>> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>  > >>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>>
>  > >>>
>  > >>
>  > >
>  > <div dir="ltr"><div style><span style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">A minor update,
> since NE2 refuses to handle this as a community:</span></div><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"><div>
>  > <span style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"><br></span></div>Me:
> I'm no longer accepting input on this outside of the mailing list. If
> you want to have any further opinion on this, post to the thread in
> talk-us. </span><div>
>  > <span style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">NE2: You know I
> can't do that. By refusing to discuss you forfeit.</span></div><div
> style><font face="Helvetica Neue, Arial, sans-serif"><span
> style="font-size:14px;line-height:23px">Me: </span></font><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">I'm not
> going to have this discussion with you someplace you can</span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"> </span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">unilaterally
> declare victory independently in a vaccuum, that isn't how</span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"> </span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">OpenStreetMap
> works. You need to follow the thread and sort out your</span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"> </span><span
> style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">differences
> with the moderators.</span></div>
>  > <div style><span style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px"><br></span></div><div
> style><span style="font-family:'Helvetica
> Neue',Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;line-height:23px">Again, since
> the consensus is this restriction is a valid one despite what NE2 is
> suggesting, I intend to revert the deletion.  Not sure who our dispute
> management authorities are these days (since I'm not sure it's DWG
> or not), but I'd like to know how to keep them in the loop on
> this.</span></div>
>  > </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri,
> Feb 8, 2013 at 6:23 PM, Apollinaris Schöll <span dir="ltr"><<a
> href="mailto:aschoell at gmail.com" target="_blank">aschoell at gmail.com</a>></span>
> wrote:<br>
>  > <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
> .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I looked a bit more and
> in many jurisdiction it's illegal anyway to go around a traffic jam  by
> exiting a freeway and go back direct on the next onramp. Even more reason
> to have a restriction. Tested Google maps and it will make a big detour to
> avoid this illegal straight on.<div class="HOEnZb">
>  > <div class="h5"><br>
>  > <br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 3:59 PM,
> Paul Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org"
> target="_blank">baloo at ursamundi.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
> class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
> solid;padding-left:1ex">
>  >
>  > <div dir="ltr">Good point, though was hoping someone in the Orlando
> area other than NE2 could weigh in (since this is a rare example of me
> chasing a Mapdust bug out to his area).</div><div><div><div
> class="gmail_extra">
>  > <br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
>  > On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 5:31 PM, Apollinaris Schöll <span
> dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:aschoell at gmail.com" target="_blank">
> aschoell at gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
> class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
> solid;padding-left:1ex">
>  >
>  >
>  > <br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Fri, Feb 8, 2013 at 12:58
> PM, Paul Johnson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:baloo at ursamundi.org"
> target="_blank">baloo at ursamundi.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote
> class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
> solid;padding-left:1ex">
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > <div dir="ltr">NE2 is going on the "World according to NE2"
> bender again, need a ruling on this relation before I revert:  <a href="
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2249811" target="_blank">
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/2249811</a><div>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > <br></div><div>Turn in question is southbound World Drive at Buena
> Vista Drive in Orlando, <a href="http://binged.it/128OlwZ"
> target="_blank">http://binged.it/128OlwZ</a>.  Despite left turn only
> markings on the southbound approach and a flush median gore preventing a
> straight-on movement, NE2 is of the opinion, and removed the relation, on
> the excuse that "<span
> style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Anyway, I've
> deleted the turn restriction, since I cannot recall having seen any signs
> prohibiting the movement, and you have not seen any such signs because you
> have not been there.</span>" Never mind that the left turn only sign
> is clearly marked on the pavement. He questioned the legal standing of the
> marking since it omits "ONLY," despite the fact that section
> 4.2.1 of the Florida Traffic Engineering Manual requires ONLY to be omitted
> in situations such as the ramp in question (a straight/left arrow would be
> required for a through-or-left-turn lane).</div>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > <div><br></div><div>Who's right?</div></div>
>  > <br></blockquote></div></div><div><br>You. it's clearly signed on
> the pavement. We are no lawyers to challenge his interpretation in court.
> So as long as no one gets a ticket and wins the court case it's the
> right thing to have a restriction.<br>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > And NE2 is known for fighting just for the fight. I come across tons of
> crap from him in areas he has never seen. I fix it and don't even
> consider to contact him.<br> </div><div><blockquote class="gmail_quote"
> style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > _______________________________________________<br>
>  > Talk-us mailing list<br>
>  > <a href="mailto:Talk-us at openstreetmap.org" target="_blank">
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org</a><br>
>  > <a href="http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us"
> target="_blank">http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us</a><br>
>  > <br></blockquote></div></div><br>
>  > </blockquote></div><br></div>
>  > </div></div></blockquote></div><br>
>  > </div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
>  > _______________________________________________
>  > Talk-us mailing list
>  > Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
>  > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-us mailing list
> Talk-us at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-us/attachments/20130209/56471f23/attachment-0001.html>


More information about the Talk-us mailing list